Cycling UK Forum

I have just acquired a great new machine, with a view to a LEJOG next year. Its equipped with a Campag Racing T Chainset in 30,40,50 which with a 13 28 at the back won't provide the right gearing for my peddling style and to be laden with panniers...

Having a campag BB with an ISO square taper BB fitting I would like to fit a 26 36 46 chain set in an ISO fitting. So I'm trying to find a TA Carmina or Zephyr in 170mm. All I can find are places that supply the parts BUT not all the parts. I just want to buy one in 170 with a square ISO taper. Chicken - I think they are the importer don't deal with the general public - anyone know a supplier that does? I f I can sort one then there will soon be a pristine Campag triple on the notice boards!

hmm not sure about your BB logic

BB Type

The Carmina has a JIS square taper connection to the bottom bracket. That means it doesn't work with either recent Campagnolo bottom brackets or the old Campy axles from the sixties and seventies. Nor is it compatible with any current Dura Ace, Ultegra, XT, XTR and most other Shimano bottom brackets with the bizarre splines, or the newest Hollowtech II bottom brackets. If you have any sort of Campagnolo or recent Shimano crankset and want to change to this TA crank, you will need a new bottom bracket. I prefer the Phil Wood.

Due to a production change TA made in 2006, the Carmina can use different length axles. The original Carmina uses a 113mm axle for a triple in a frame with a 1 1/8" seat tube. You can tell the original Carmina by looking at the back side of the crank. If it's polished in the recessed section of the arm, it's the original version. If the recessed section has a grey finish and appears to be sandblasted, you have the later version. The later version requires an axle that's about 6mm longer. So a triple on a traditional steel frame with 1 1/8" seat tube would use a 119mm axle. See below for more information about BB axle length.

Q Factor

With a 113mm TA Axix bottom bracket, symmetrical in the frame, the Q factor for a triple is 156mm with the TA pedal washers. This assumes the original Carmina! The newer crank has the smae Q factor but needs a longer axle

from

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/carmina.asp

Zephyr cranks use a longer BB spindle altogether.

If you want a simple solution, get a new chainset and matching BB. You can get a spa cycles sugino one with TA chainrings and a suitable BB. The whole shooting match will be a fair bit less than a TA chainset alone, and pretty well as good in practice.

cheers

I would recommend abandoning the Campag BB and getting a JIS BB to fit the readily available and cheap Sugino XD2 (aka Stronglight Impact, Spa, SJSC etc). It will be considerably cheaper. This allows down to 24T inner chainring, and min. 34T on the middle.
Next smallest would be one of the 4-arm MTB chainsets like the Spa 104, which go down to 22T inner

Whilst the XD2 isn't as pretty as a Zephyr, and is probably a bit heavier, I reckon that it's stronger. I've broken Zephyr, XT and Middleburn RS3(?) cranks in the past, but never an XD2, despite more use. The Carmina is uglier than the XD2 is.

Zephyr cranksets went out of production 8 or 10 years ago, and even if they were still available offer nothing significant over the XD2 as the extra 56mm BCD bolt holes do not fit any available chainrings. The nearest is Shimano 58mm 5-arm, which leaves you filing 1mm off the inside edge of each bolt hole -BTDTGTTS. The BCD was for Suntour Microdrive, which died even longer ago. To find a Zephyr crankset, it's a matter of getting lucky on eBay. Don't expect it to be cheap. The Zephyr uses about a 122mm BB axle (from memory - I'm not taking the cranks off to check).
Carmina is still around, but pretty rare (try phoning Dotbike). It's also expensive as it's sold as a kit of parts - left crank £80, right crank £90, spider £65, plus lockring, chainrings and bolts.

You might like to consider Middleburn, which also comes as cranks plus interchangeable spider.

Thanks for your input.

The 2013 TA catalogue says that both the Carmina and Vortex (their road chainsets) are ISO... So somebody is wrong somewhere... Or perhaps you can specify JIS. I don't want to ditch the BB as its a Campag Record and has buttery smooth bearings that should outlast me.

I equipped my wife's Condor with a Stronglight from Spa Cycles with no worries - so I know that those are fine on the right BB.

It's a pain (and expensive) to try and buy all the component parts - and I can't change the rings on the Campag set up because the BCD won't support a 26 inner.

The search continues...

MGate wrote: It's a pain (and expensive) to try and buy all the component parts - and I can't change the rings on the Campag set up because the BCD won't support a 26 inner....

whoa, easy tiger; which version of the racing T do you have...? At least once has a 74mm bcd inner which will take down to 24T...

cheers

Brucey

Thanks mate - you are of course right - I double checked and of course the Racing T has a separate set of bolts for the inner ring with a 74mm BCD which means I can just change the rings - I bow to your superior chainset knowledge! It's exactly why I joined the forums... Should make some of the hills up here go a little easier...

Cheers everyone

Mick

For reference, the source for TA cranksets is Bike Plus
http://www.bikeplus.co.uk/c/681/TA-chainsets

One of the advantages of being in the EU is that you can bypass the UK distributor and order from France. I've ordered TA bits from these guys and found them reliable. The website is available in English.

http://www.xxcycle.com/php/boutique/pag ... eSearch=30

Thanks for the suppliers guys - I ended up buying a couple of TA rings from Spa for my Campag spider - I now have 26, 39, 46, I know there's some overlap with 39, 46 but thats the lowest I can go on the outer spider - the inner is on a separate set of bolts with a smaller BCD. Now have a good winching gear at about 25inches... All change smoothly with no problems. Thanks for everyone's help.