I may be going over old ground here, but I promise that I have scoured the messageboards before posting! After a few years of light touring and the odd long, day ride on my London commuting bike I got more into bikes last August by buying my first road bike. Economy was important (I'm at University) and I managed to get a cheap aluminium frame with carbon fork hung with a mixture of 2300/sora for £300 - a similar bike to the much-heralded Triban 3:
However I have since got into my cycling in a massive way, shelling out for a high-end aluminium racing bike and I am now looking to convert the Viking into a winter trainer / audax bike. Hence this post! In the future I would obviously love a hand-made bespoke steel frame from a frame builder, or even a Ti, but for now I am still on a budget.
I am really checking for advice and if possible previous experience with Reynolds 525, particularly with the Ribble frame (below) which seems very good value (shame about the lurid red - but I'm after substance over style).
Am I right in thinking that I will sacrifice a bit of weight (perhaps up to 1kg) but get a lot more stiffness and better handling (and perhaps a slightly smoother ride...but lets not open that can of worms ). This is partly brought on by a truly terrible ride yesterday where reasonably high winds meant the Viking was handling like it was made of plastic compared to my new Canyon Roadlite which I rode through the summer.
Any advice and/or experience would be much appreciated.
No experience of the steel Ribble winter frame Oli but have used teh Ribble aluminium winter quite a bit. http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ibbfraw220 . It's stiff, rides well and has good handing. It's also in a less gaudy colour - quite an attractive blue.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
So, you are thinking of getting the Ribble frame and then transferring all the parts over to it from your Viking, for use as a winter trainer? Well, I think that would be money wasted ... unless the Ribble takes full length mudguards where your Viking may not. Full length mudguards are, in my opinion, really are a necessity if you want to do lots of miles in a British winter. If, on the other hand, the Ribble takes full length mudguards where your Viking doesn't, well then buying the Ribble would not be money wasted.
Maybe check this out, you would need some handlebars and stem but other than that you should be able to swap everything else out. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=79974 If that isn't to your liking/size there are a lot of cheapish vintage frames out there that will be cheaper and nicer than the ribble.
On a side note, 525 reynolds steel isn't made in the UK. It's there cheapest steel made under licence in the far east and built using machines and "economic slavery" to bring it to you at that price.
Thanks Fossala that's interesting. I did have a good look around the internet for an older steel frame but found it difficult to find one in my size (60cm - I'm 6ft4 - the Ribble sizes up apparently) and also I was looking for something more from the 80s/90s as I didn't want complications fitting 8 gears at the back and I am looking for something that could take my existing handlebars and fork (carbon) which I am definitely looking to keep to save money in the short term. But yes the plan would be to switch all of the componentry across and gradually upgrade piece by piece starting with the naff shifters (2300 - a definite false economy).
Pete - I did check out the aluminium offering but decided that I'm done with (relatively cheap) aluminium - I have the canyon which is a great bike and I'm looking for something a bit more rugged and stiff to stand up (quite literally) to the British weather! Happy to sacrifice weight in favour of stiffness and handling. Like I say, I'm just finding it hard finding any second hand frame(s) in good condition in my size that would take all of my components.
p.s. Valbrona - I did my homework and apparently the Ribble frame takes full length mudguards AND has rack eyelets. The Viking frame takes/has neither.
I'd advise you to ride as many different bikes as you can before shelling out on a new frame. You describe the Viking frame as 'feeling like it is made out of plastic' but cheap aluminium frames are usually too stiff, if anything. If the viking handles badly in the crosswinds I'd blame the wheels first; deep section rims catch the crosswinds badly and unless you have ridden a few different bikes in strong winds you shouldn't expect to have any firm idea of what is going on.
After a couple of years hard use, I'd suggest chucking the cheap carbon fork in the bin, not keeping it.
Winter trainers see a hard life and your Viking doesn't take mudguards. You might be able to fit Giant defy mudguards to the bike; a lot cheaper than a new frame.
'Naff shifters?' well on a training bike just keep using them until they fail and then get some new ones. They are the first thing to break in a crash and they are one of the most expensive parts of the bike. Spending a wadge on new ones that just look prettier when you are on a budget is not a very sensible thing to do IMHO.
As you may have noticed buying bikes complete is quite cost effective if you get the right one. By the time you have bought frame, wheels, STIs you are almost up to the price of another bike. Buying a previous year's model on sale or a good used bike isn't a bad idea.
fossala wrote:Maybe check this out, you would need some handlebars and stem but other than that you should be able to swap everything else out. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=79974 If that isn't to your liking/size there are a lot of cheapish vintage frames out there that will be cheaper and nicer than the ribble.
On a side note, 525 reynolds steel isn't made in the UK. It's there cheapest steel made under licence in the far east and built using machines and "economic slavery" to bring it to you at that price.
I think you'll find it's th 520 tubing that is made under licence in Taiwan. 525 tubing is also to be found with TSR Moultons.
olivermleach wrote:p.s. Valbrona - I did my homework and apparently the Ribble frame takes full length mudguards AND has rack eyelets. The Viking frame takes/has neither.
Oh, the Ribble might set you right then. You would expect it to offer some more comfort than your Viking and be better for longer distances. My aim when I was racing in my younger days was to do plenty of miles over the winter and rain is usually the greatest obstacle to this objective. And if you go out on club rides over winter a lot of groups have a 'mudguard only' rule. There's only one thing more miserable than riding in the rain on your own and that's riding in a group in the rain and when you have spray from the bike in front to cover you.
Or the other thing is to run one bike all year round, ie. your new Canyon. But that might limit your riding to dry days only.
Thanks Brucey - that was really helpful. I hadn't actually thought about the wheels but it's a very good point. I was riding a Shimano R501 training wheel at the front and the stock viking rear wheel which had a slightly aero profile rim but nothing major. They are reasonably heavy training wheels but perhaps not sufficiently stiff. In fact I do own a set of Shimano RS30 wheels which I ran on the Viking over the summer and began racing on. I used raceblade mudguards on the Viking which do half the job of full-length guards in my opinion, as well as tarnishing the frame and fork. Incidentally, the fork has only had 12 months' (admittedly high mileage) use. My commuting bike has shimano touring wheels (deore front sphinx rear hubs with mavic A319 rims) and of course that certainly holds up a lot better to a British beating!
Re: shifters I was planning on using the 2300's until they give out, and I'm eyeing up the shimano claris 2400 which is now dual-paddle and 8-speed compatible for when the others give out. Currently the shifting can take up to 4-5 pedal revolutions before the mech kicks in, even though it is all set up properly. Otherwise I might try to upgrade to second-hand 9-speed which opens up more options, but I'm wary of buying second-hand shifters in case they have had a lot of use / been crashed.
I should say that the ultimate aim of this bike is hard, winter training miles AND long audax rides - along with a couple of friends from University we are looking to attempt some of the PBP qualification rides to see how we get on. The leading rider has a custom-built titanium steed with microshift arsis and handmade dynamo hub wheels!
At that price the Ribble frame seems too good to be true, so perhaps it simply is!
Fair point it may need some tweaking. I did index the gears last week but perhaps not well enough. Shame no-one seems to have ridden the Ribble frame though.
p.s. My bad - the rear wheel is a Parallax hub with a rigida sphinx rim not a sphinx hub(!).
Fair point it may need some tweaking. I did index the gears last week but perhaps not well enough. Shame no-one seems to have ridden the Ribble frame though.
p.s. My bad - the rear wheel is a Parallax hub with a rigida sphinx rim not a sphinx hub(!).
My Step-Mum was going to pick one up, ended up going for a croix de fer though (after riding the one I used to have).
Re frames; they vary in feel with size as much as anything else. A frame that feels really stiff to a 70kg rider in 52cm can feel kind of noodly (or, if you are not laying the power down so much, comfortable...) in 60cm to an 80kg rider, hence the suggestion that you ride as many different frames as possible before buying another.
Re the crosswind; as well as the windage, IIRC the shimano R501 wheels are not very laterally stiff; if you have to lean the bike into the wind much a R501 wheel (especially one with even slightly slack spokes) might flex sideways quite a lot. You may even get brake rub if it is bad enough, and the bike may feel horrible to steer well before that. More spokes please!
Re shifters; whilst a sticky shifter might cause a shift delay, this is usually easily fixed with a shot of spray lube, and anyway the real problem is much more likely to be sticky cables and/or wear in the top pulley of the rear mech. Don't be too quick to blame the shifter here.
The top pulley should have about +/- 0.5mm of 'float' in it but cheap mechs quickly wear to more than that. Any play in the mech itself just adds to the potential error. If you buy replacement pulleys for 8s, think about 9s Ultegra/XT ones if the mech is OK or perhaps Tacx ones (if the mech itself is a little worn). These have smoother, more durable bearings and 9s pulleys work fine with 8s systems. If you are running 9s chain on the 8s sprockets I think you can use 10s pulleys OK, but the shimano ones do have narrower bushings that (all else being equal) will wear more quickly.
Winter use is hard on bikes: Years ago I ran a derailleur geared training/winter bike and my bike store started to become filled up with worn (and expensive) transmission parts at an alarming rate; without lots of (fairly tedious) cleaning etc winter use can see off a cheap chain in 1000-2000 miles and if you don't catch it soon enough the cassette won't take a new chain without jumping. The rear mech is next to go binwards, and then the chainrings.... and so it goes on. My antidote to this (which won't suit everyone...) was to use a bike with a hub gear for winter use. 25-30 years later I'm still using a similar bike and in fact many of the parts have actually lasted that long....The downside is that the bike is about 1/2 lb to 1 lb heavier, and has fewer gears that are further apart. The plus side is that the chains and sprockets are disposably cheap ( I can buy both chain and sprocket for about £6...) and I can let the chain wear to over 1% before it really starts to damage the (steel) chainring I usually use. Arguably the 'downsides' meant that I became a better bike rider in the process; if you are going through and off, sack out, then not having the 'right gear' is definitely a bit more of a challenge.
If I didn't want to use a hub gear (and in fairness I think it is a choice that maybe only one in ten roadies -if that- might make) then I'd probably use 8s (or 7s, or 8-from-9) in the winter just because the parts are cheaper than 10s stuff and last a bit longer. The 130mm width 7s (or 8-from-9 on a 7s body) gives a much stronger rear wheel because you can reduce the dish. You can use 8s shifters on 8 cogs at 9s spacing if you use a 'hubbub' style cable mount adjustment on the rear mech. However 7s freehub bodies are more difficult to get hold of these days so this route isn't as attractive as it once was. A downside to running different kit on different bikes is that there is less scope for swapping stuff around, but at least you tend to get through the winter with an intact 'good' bike this way, rather than one where you have pinched the wheels for use on the training bike....
I've been running bikes with 135mm rear for a while now. Both the croix de fer was (as are most disc brake road bikes) and so is my Raleigh Randonneur. Saying that though, I never had problems with any decent set of wheels going out of true or braking spokes.
). This is partly brought on by a truly terrible ride yesterday where reasonably high winds meant the Viking was handling like it was made of plastic compared to my new Canyon Roadlite which I rode through the summer.