buying advice please - Croix de fer v Specialized AWOL

[reohn2]

Mr Jemm
Thanks for pointing that out to me,looking at Mrs Jemm's bike it seems the rack legs clear the caliper with some types of caliper at least
There is one other fault with the Straggler and the Cross Check that concerns me,the chainstays are short for touring at 43cm and 42.5cm,I'd want 450 at least if not longer with my 46/47 feet and 175mm cranks

[BrianP]

The Straggler geometry has quite a long top tube for each size. I realise that frames such as Fargo's and Vaya's look to have long ETT on the charts, but their bars are very high and compensate. However the Straggler has a horizontal top tube and for a 56cm size has a 58cm top tube.

Looks to me as if a 54cm size might be equivalent to a 56cm. http://surlybikes.com/bikes/straggler/geometry

Why oh why cannot someone create a software package that allows people to enter their dimensions, the frames geometry and then add seat position, stem and handlebar type and he presto, certainty about fit. How can Companies spend so much on R+D and marketing and not help their customers a little more with fit.

Rant over.

Brian

[BrianP]

Mr Jemm
Thanks for pointing that out to me,looking at Mrs Jemm's bike it seems the rack legs clear the caliper with some types of caliper at least
There is one other fault with the Straggler and the Cross Check that concerns me,the chainstays are short for touring at 43cm and 42.5cm,I'd want 450 at least if not longer with my 46/47 feet and 175mm cranks

You need an AWOL. Chain stays are 455mm

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/ ... l#geometry

Brian

[SamSam]

Thanks guys, learning a bunch here!

Taking your advice and will drop the idea of starting with a singlespeed build and trying to convert later on. So singlespeed is not a desire anymore, as it was only and idea to limit the initial costs.

My shoe size is 44/45

Nice to hear that Belt-drive is not perfect for touring. I was just wondering since Santos makes these Belt-Drive Rohloff travel bikes and it seems the guy that won the great divide rode a Belt-drive/Rohloff combo or something like that. Wouldn't mind not needing one in the future because they seem freaking expensive

Cross-Check and Straggler seem very nice to me (functionally speaking), but I had always neglected them because, to my inexperienced eye, they seem to have an even more aggresive/racy geometry than the Croix de Fer (I think it's because in most pictures the top tube is like descending towards the steerer rather than ascending or flat).

So basically, since the singlespeed to touring conversion was not such a good idea, it's back to tire clearance again I would however like the possibility of using Rohloff in the future.

Of the 2014 Vaya's, I only like the looks of the Vaya 2 frame (color), and I guess that one is to expensive as a complete build. Glad to hear that Cross-Check is also still a good option, because it is cheaper than a straggler and I like the hospital foam green enough to buy one I think. Cinelli might indeed be risky, and it's as of yet not so easy to get by a 61 online (the largest). If I buy from the distributor of the Benelux directly the complete Hobo will be € 1350. Will definitely try an Awol, because there are multiple stores in the neighborhood that have one in their shop where you can sit on But still don't like the looks of the Awol (sloping top tube and colour).

SO I guess for now the best choice is indeed Surly Cross-Check

Again, thanks for the interesting talks and discussions. To be continued

[mrjemm]

Mr Jemm
Thanks for pointing that out to me,looking at Mrs Jemm's bike it seems the rack legs clear the caliper with some types of caliper at least
There is one other fault with the Straggler and the Cross Check that concerns me,the chainstays are short for touring at 43cm and 42.5cm,I'd want 450 at least if not longer with my 46/47 feet and 175mm cranks

Not sure what you mean about caliper to clear the caliper... The rack is bolted directly to the mount on the dropout, no spacers or anything.

...And bar handling issues you may be referring to, as I mentioned, the rearward mounting of the racks should compensate for shorter chainstays somewhat.

Brian, as R2's hinted at, I know the above bike well, having put it together, and the top tube is not so long- shorter than the custom built bike Mdme also rides. Tis just a wee 42 though...

Likewise, my Vaya I find too long (long legs, short arms) and have put it aside for a converted mtb, which are notorious for being long.

[reohn2]

Mr Jemm
Thanks for pointing that out to me,looking at Mrs Jemm's bike it seems the rack legs clear the caliper with some types of caliper at least
There is one other fault with the Straggler and the Cross Check that concerns me,the chainstays are short for touring at 43cm and 42.5cm,I'd want 450 at least if not longer with my 46/47 feet and 175mm cranks

You need an AWOL. Chain stays are 455mm

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/ ... l#geometry

Brian

What about the toptube?

[SamSam]

About those toptubes:

You told me with my length (1m92 or 1m93, and 90/91cm inside leg length) I should be looking at something with a 600 mm toptube. Any advice on the range around that value I should be looking at? In other words, what do you advice regarding minimum and maximum toptube length I should be looking at? If I understand correctly a long top tube in combination with a short head tube is what you want on a racy roadbike and a bit less on a adventure/all rounder bike?

[mrjemm]

Maybe it should worry me that this thread interests me more than the blether around me in the pub...

Anyway...

[reohn2]

Not sure what you mean about caliper to clear the caliper... The rack is bolted directly to the mount on the dropout, no spacers or anything.

It was your disclaimer about the SLX hydro's compared to the wider BB7's

...And bar handling issues you may be referring to,

Not sure what you mean

as I mentioned, the rearward mounting of the racks should compensate for shorter chainstays somewhat.

Yep after looking at the photo of Mrs Jemm's bike again I agree there's an extra 20mm to be gained there

[reohn2]

About those toptubes:

You told me with my length (1m92 or 1m93, and 90/91cm inside leg length) I should be looking at something with a 600 mm toptube. Any advice on the range around that value I should be looking at? In other words, what do you advice regarding minimum and maximum toptube length I should be looking at? If I understand correctly a long top tube in combination with a short head tube is what you want on a racy roadbike and a bit less on a adventure/all rounder bike?

Check back up thread,things are beginning to get circular...........

[mrjemm]

Was covering bases... Was not sure if it was just shoe size that was an issue with short chainstays, so covered my back by referring to handling issues.

Possibly with BB7s spacers may be needed, but would need to take a closer look. Next week should be home...

[CREPELLO]

.

[SamSam]

About those toptubes:

You told me with my length (1m92 or 1m93, and 90/91cm inside leg length) I should be looking at something with a 600 mm toptube. Any advice on the range around that value I should be looking at? In other words, what do you advice regarding minimum and maximum toptube length I should be looking at? If I understand correctly a long top tube in combination with a short head tube is what you want on a racy roadbike and a bit less on a adventure/all rounder bike?

Check back up thread,things are beginning to get circular...........

I went back and I have reread the whole thread, but what I'm still wondering is the following:

Isn't a slightly shorter ETT beneficial if you want a riding position slightly more upright?

For example:

Surly Cross-Check 60: ETT 600 and headtube 160
Croix de Fer 60: ETT 575 and headtube 165

From those numbers my (inexperienced) brain would deduce that the Croix de Fer 60 would be a bit more comfortable than the Surly Cross-Check 60? Or not?

[reohn2]

About those toptubes:

You told me with my length (1m92 or 1m93, and 90/91cm inside leg length) I should be looking at something with a 600 mm toptube. Any advice on the range around that value I should be looking at? In other words, what do you advice regarding minimum and maximum toptube length I should be looking at? If I understand correctly a long top tube in combination with a short head tube is what you want on a racy roadbike and a bit less on a adventure/all rounder bike?

Check back up thread,things are beginning to get circular...........

I went back and I have reread the whole thread, but what I'm still wondering is the following:

Isn't a slightly shorter ETT beneficial if you want a riding position slightly more upright?

For example:

Surly Cross-Check 60: ETT 600 and headtube 160
Croix de Fer 60: ETT 575 and headtube 165

From those numbers my (inexperienced) brain would deduce that the Croix de Fer 60 would be a bit more comfortable than the Surly Cross-Check 60? Or not?

Checkout the front centres,ie; the distance between BB and front wheel axle,toe overlap isn't desirable on a touring bike,it can bring you off at slow speed especially when loaded when you may wobble a bit,ie;on a slow climb or when manoeuvring.
Front centres on my 57cm sized Vaya are 62.5cm,which means that with 700x37c(actual 35x35 section)tyres,mudguards with generous clearances for off road riding,17.5cm cranks and 46/47size MTB shoes,there's no toe overlap.

[SamSam]

hm good tip about toe overlap, thanks. But what about the riding position?


And I think I have finally found my dream bike(s):

http://www.shandcycles.com/frames/allroad-plus/stoater-plus-overview/

http://www.shandcycles.com/frames/fat-tyre-stoater/stoater-ft-overview/

If only I had such amounts of money. They seem perfect

Which reminds me, are other bikes such as the Cross-Check and Croix de Fer compatible with a Rohloff hub?