buying advice please - Croix de fer v Specialized AWOL

[reohn2]

hm good tip about toe overlap, thanks. But what about the riding position?

What about it?
Do you know your riding position?
Which prompts me to ask how much long distance(over 70km per day)cycling experience you have?
If not a lot,I'd advise you to sort out riding position before making any decisions about any bike we've so far discussed.

Which reminds me, are other bikes such as the Cross-Check and Croix de Fer compatible with a Rohloff hub?

Both are,but the Croix de Fer would need a chain tensioner

[Claireysmurf]

I think there is no such thing as the perfect bike and at some point you will have to commit. There will always be something that is more suitable in one way, less so in another.
Sad thing is that there is always an opportunity cost in buying a bike

[reohn2]

I think there is no such thing as the perfect bike...........

You've obviously not owned a Vaya

[BrianP]

Might be worth a quick question or two on Surly sizing with the chap selling this 62cm Steamroller. He mentions that it is suitable for riders 6'2" and above.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111249661295? ... 1423.l2649

Price is a little high for a singlespeed but it fitted out with high quality components. Could use it as a learning sizing bike. Then sell on. hate reserve price though.

Crosscheck frameset is just £305 and says it is in stock at Triton sale http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-fo ... reen-p1342

While browsing the Triton site I noticed the Civa Kingfield has a huge reduction from £1100 to just £600, for a belt drive 8 speed IGH touring bike. Size 61cm which their site says is for 6' to 6'4". QBP who own Surly and Salsa also own Civia.

http://civiacycles.com/bikes/kingfield/



http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/road-bike ... bike-p1851



Civia Kingsfield spec

- 4130 steel frame and fork.
- Frame is split, allowing for Belt drive compatibility.
- Comes with horizontal removeable dropouts.
- Vertical dropouts with derailleur tab available.
- Fender and rack bosses on frame and fork.
- Canti-bosses on frame and fork.
- Civia custom-designed kickstand plate.
- Stainless steel headtube badge.
- Civia stainless steel seatpost clamp.

Frame: Civia Kingfield.
Fork: Civia Kingfield.
Crankset: Civia 5 arm w/ 50t Gates Carbon Drive ring.
Cassette: 24t Gates Carbon Drive cog.
Chain: 118t Gates Carbon Drive belt
Components.
Headset: FSA 855.
Shifter: Jtek bar end shifter.
Brakes: Tektro 855AL Linear pull brakes.
Handlebar: Civia Bryant drop bar.
Stem: Civia Bryant.
Saddle: Velo.
Seatpost: Civia micro-adjust.
Tyres: Kenda Kwest 700x32. Takes 35 with mudguards and 42 without.
Rear Rack: Civia Café.
Front Rack: none.
Fenders: Civia Wirth.
Wheels: Nexus 8 / Civia non-disc, Alex rims.



Switch to inches Small (46-51cm) 54cm 56cm 58cm 61cm
Seat Tube C-T 460 mm 510 mm 560 mm 595 mm 620 mm
Top Tube Effective 510 mm 540 mm 565 mm 585 mm 605 mm
Head Tube Angle 71 ° 72 ° 72 ° 72 ° 72 °
Seat Tube Angle 74.5 ° 73.5 ° 73 ° 72.5 ° 72.5 °
BB Drop 75 mm 75 mm 75 mm 75 mm 75 mm
CS Length 444 mm 444 mm 444 mm 444 mm 444 mm
Wheelbase 1006 mm 1017 mm 1037 mm 1052 mm 1072 mm
Standover 710 mm 753 mm 787 mm 797 mm 815 mm
Head Tube Length 100 mm 130 mm 160 mm 190 mm 220 mm
Fork Length 400 mm 400 mm 400 mm 400 mm 400 mm
Fork Rake 45 mm 45 mm 45 mm 45 mm 45 mm
* Standover is based on using a 700 x 32 tire measuring 686 in diameter
Standover is measured vertically from the top tube midpoint to the axle horizontal plus 1/2 the tire diameter


Good discussion of belt drives here http://www.ecovelo.info/2011/05/05/livi ... onths-out/

YouTube demo of wheel removal and belt replacement and adjustment for the Civia Bryant which is the disc brake alfine version http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VVYvg88rz- ... Z7j4JRLqUA


Brian

[SamSam]

Thanks for the answers guys, appreciate the effort!

Interesting bike that Civa. I'm a little hesitant of buying a belt-drive bike, because of the replies in this thread on my question regarding the use of belt-drive for touring purposes. And simply because for now it is still harder to find spare parts and people that can repair one globally speaking I guess. But I would have found it a plus if I had found a bike that has the possibility to install a belt-drive and internal gearing hub in the future (But also can take derailleur gearing right now; e.g. Awol Comp for example). However, I'm not going to select specifically on that feature.

Another concern that has surfaced is the reviews I have been reading about buying a bike online from Evans... It seems ALOT of people have had horrible experiences with them! The sales that are going right now seem great, but of what use are they if the possibility exists I get a damaged item sent to Belgium or if something is not functioning properly. I'm reading posts from UK residents that had a very hard time dealing with the customer service of Evans when a component of a delivered bike was not functioning properly. I'm guessing I will have an even harder time if that would happen to me, because I first need to get the bike back to Evans all the way to the UK.

Any experiences with Evans? Is it really that bad? Do the advantages of buying locally outweigh the sales at Evans? (I have found Surly, Kona, Specialized and Genesis dealers here in Belgium in the meantime)?

[Claireysmurf]

I have bought two bikes from Evans' shop in Milton Keynes and my experience was good.

Judging by the number of shop soiled bikes that Evans and others such as Wheelies sell, it is relatively common for them to be damaged in transit. However, fact that they sell on these bikes suggest they don't quibble if your bike is damaged on delivery. I keep an eye out on the two companies' shop soiled offers and they are relatively slow to sell so that suggests that the actual proportion of bikes damaged is probably pretty small.

Evans http://www.evanscycles.com/categories/b ... iled-bikes
Wheelies http://www.wheelies.co.uk/c626873/Bikes ... splay.aspx

Maybe you could make a short break of a trip to pick up a bike? http://www.evanscycles.com/stores
I suspect the Evans' offers finish on Monday though!

[SamSam]

I suspect the Evans' offers finish on Monday though!

Thanks for this, didn't know that. I guess my best bet is to buy locally. But 10% off and more at these online shops is tempting.

Hopping over to the UK by plane or train and cycling back home to Belgium with the new bike is something I would LOVE to do. However, in total that would cost me more than buying a bike from a local dealer.

[BrianP]

I think really the best thing is to forget small 10% discounts and make sure you buy a bike that fits you. Read up as much as you can about touring bike fit. Tony Oliver's book about touring bikes is my bible and where I began the process of learning about correct frame fit.

The final part of the AWOL film has just been posted http://vimeo.com/83397300 on the AWOL Site.

Link to the three previous films here http://vimeo.com/ertzuifilm/videos

You should seriously consider going to your local Specialized dealer, have a proper professional fitting by them, and buy probably an XL AWOL with correctly set up stem and seat height. Or some other bike, but at least the Specialized fitting would make sure the bike fitted you.

Brian

[SamSam]

Hi Folks!

Few days ago my Croix de Fer 60 arrived in Brussels! My local dealer replaced the standard rear Tiagra mech with a deore, and the standard rear cassette with a 11-34T (as some of you advised). Will see how that goes, and if I have the money I can always switch to triple in the future, if that should be necessary.

Only thing I haven't decided yet is if I want him to mount full mudguards (SKS P50), or rather MTB style mudguards that are easily removable. I currently have no idea how these compare with respect to keeping yourself and the bike clean. Any suggestions are welcome!

Can't wait to pick it up (which is going to be on Saturday at the latest)!

For the remainder, I'm thinking of getting Alpkit's bikepacking luggage and possibly combining those with classic rack/panniers

Thanks again for all the interesting suggestions and discussions!

[reohn2]

........... Only thing I haven't decided yet is if I want him to mount full mudguards (SKS P50), or rather MTB style mudguards that are easily removable. I currently have no idea how these compare with respect to keeping yourself and the bike clean. Any suggestions are welcome!..........

With upto 32mm(actual section) tyres,the largest the Croix de Fer will take,P45's will suffice,however P50's will catch more overspill in wet weather.
IMO the MTB style m/guards are next to useless.

[SamSam]

Thank you! My local dealer was so kind to fit the p50's for free!

And boy am I glad he did! Took it for a ride (60 km) through endless rain and heavy wind and it was a blast! Never been on a bike that is that fast and absorbs that much (never been on any road type bike or anything decent actually but ok)! First thing I'm going to do tomorrow is pick up a helmet Now I finally understand why all these cyclists wear helmets

I do have to admit I'm pretty wrecked. Possibly because I'm rather out of shape at the moment, or because I'm not used to ride in that position. But I do think (as all of you warned me about) that the bars are to low

But I love everything else about the bike so I'm on the lookout for a decent compatible extender steering tube. Colin suggested something like this a few pages back:

http://www.highonbikes.com/bbb-extender-quill-to-ahead-bike-handlebar-stem-adapter.html?gclid=CITowL62tbsCFWbLtAodUw0ABQ#.Uv6E_WJdWSp

Any advice on how to know if a certain extender steering tube fits my frame?

[simonl123]

This is an interesting thread. I'm 6'4" and I've been looking for a while for a new flat-bar tourer/trekker with a good long reach - since I'm quite long in the body as well. The Surly Long Haul trucker looks close, but one problem is being able to test ride anything. Virtually all bikes broadly classed as "tourers" sold complete seem to have drop bars, for a start, so even if test riding one gave me any kind of objective measure of suitability I'd have to buy one and throw a load of bits away and re-fit. Otherwise I have to order one made up and guess at the fit from the data available on line. Getting measured or fitted seems to cost upwards of £180 (the quote I got from Mosquito bikes though some of that's refundable if I buy) but I'm not sure of how useful fitting is and what model it's based on. Advice from people who work in bike shops is not very reliable (no offence, people, but most of you are 30 years younger than me and seem very caught up in the current idea of cycling-as-sport!) so I am left with having to fork out up to £2000 for something that might not fit me. If I buy a pair of shoes for £100 I expect to try them on and to bring them back for a refund if they cripple me after a week, so are there any bike dealers out there who'll offer me the same terms?

[samsbike]

I thought Thorn do a 100 day no quibble refund?

[Vorpal]

This is an interesting thread. I'm 6'4" and I've been looking for a while for a new flat-bar tourer/trekker with a good long reach - since I'm quite long in the body as well. The Surly Long Haul trucker looks close, but one problem is being able to test ride anything. Virtually all bikes broadly classed as "tourers" sold complete seem to have drop bars, for a start, so even if test riding one gave me any kind of objective measure of suitability I'd have to buy one and throw a load of bits away and re-fit. Otherwise I have to order one made up and guess at the fit from the data available on line. Getting measured or fitted seems to cost upwards of £180 (the quote I got from Mosquito bikes though some of that's refundable if I buy) but I'm not sure of how useful fitting is and what model it's based on. Advice from people who work in bike shops is not very reliable (no offence, people, but most of you are 30 years younger than me and seem very caught up in the current idea of cycling-as-sport!) so I am left with having to fork out up to £2000 for something that might not fit me. If I buy a pair of shoes for £100 I expect to try them on and to bring them back for a refund if they cripple me after a week, so are there any bike dealers out there who'll offer me the same terms?

I don't know their terms, but I would try Spa Cycles or SJS Cycles. I'm sure there are others out there, as well.

[mrjemm]

Not sure if still the case, but Keep Pedalling in Manc were doing a flat barred Surly Straggler in Cycle scheme friendly mode, i.e. £1000 IIRC. Usually bikes available to try too. Maybe LHT, etc. available similar? All QBP (Surly, Salsa, etc.) bikes sold though, and happy to build how you like. I guess as you refer to Mosquito that you're in London though, so not able to suggest closer, but suspect there are places a bit more suitable, flexible, etc., down there; all the good places surely can't only be in the North (ok, and SW...).