Cycling UK Forum

BrianP wrote:Don't know if you are following the Awol blog, but if you have a look here one of the development engineers writes about a cycle /climbing trip just like the one described http://wearegoingawol.tumblr.com/page/6

I like Genesis designs a lot, but cannot see how the bars can be set level with the saddle if bought as standard from them.

Brian

Hadn't seen that cycle/climbing trip report yet! That is indeed what I want to do. Is the Croix de Fer less suited for this? And if so, why?

Or with your last sentence, do you mean that for these kind of undertakings it is advised/beneficial to be able to set the bars level with the saddle?

Sam

Claireysmurf wrote:

BrianP wrote:I like Genesis designs a lot, but cannot see how the bars can be set level with the saddle if bought as standard from them.

Brian

I bought a Croix de Fer frame and have built it up with my own choice of parts. My steerer tube has been left uncut, I have an adjustable stem set fairly high, and the stem is at the top of the steerer tube and it is still not quite level with the saddle (I am 5ft 10 and it is a 56cm frame).

The OP also mentioned possibly swapping the frame at a later date. Are the bits really that suited to what is likely to be a hybrid or MTB frame? The standard gearing is 50/34 and 12-30 and I specified a 50/39/30 triple with a 12-30 cassette. Even so, a few people on here still queried whether the gearing would be a tad on the high side.

Interesting. Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but on which pre-built bike is the gearing the most suited for loaded touring (more on the lower side in comparison with the other bike), on the Croix de Fer or the Specialized Awol deluxe?

The spec for the AWOL is here http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/bikes/ ... luxe#specs and the gearing is wider (ie a triple chainset) and lower (CDF=34, AWOL 30 front, CDF=30 rear, AWOL marginally lower at 32), which will be better for loaded touring. However neither is especially low compared to a mountain bike or even a hybrid.

Edited to clarify and also should say that AWOL is Sora but Croix de Fer has Tiagra gears which are the next up in Shimano's road range

hmm ok so that's another one in favor of the AWOL, the wider and lower gearing

Was not aware of that, thanks

As much as I was leaning towards the Croix de Fer yesterday, it seems the tide might be shifting once again

Starting with a frameset means you can leave the steerer uncut, but if buying a complete bike there is not that choice. Look at most pictures of Genesis road bikes and the bars are miles lower than the seat.

Checking on the geometry charts the Awol has from 2" to 3" higher stack height than the equivalent Genesis. Stack height being height of top of frame head tube above centre of bottom bracket.

Brian

SamSam
This beats the pants of the CdeF and The AWOL,IMO:-
http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/road-bike ... -2014-p810
Use the stock wheels for commuting and get a pair of touring wheels built on Shimano M756 hubs and DRC ST19 or Rigida Sputnik rims.RoseVerSand could help

SamSam wrote:...............

As much as I was leaning towards the Croix de Fer yesterday, it seems the tide might be shifting once again

I don't mean to be rude, but you are not in a position to choose, and you can't be until you have done some riding.
How often do you buy a new bit of climbing or camping gear? How often have you changed your mind about climbing/camping gear in the last 3 years?
If you are a "gear freak" for climbing/camping gear, why not bikes, too?
You are over-thinking all of this, and people showering you with technicalities are not helping.
(example.......as far as stiffness goes, steel is steel is steel....the single biggest thing that determines frame stiffness is tube diameter, and you won't find that in the geometry charts.)
You are going to have to take a guess....and believe me, any vaguely suitable modern bike will be far superior to the hand-me-downs that I started with as an almost penniless schoolboy.
Whatever bike you go for, expect to make some changes. Its dead easy to extend a steerer to get the bars higher. Its not too hard or expensive to alter the gearing.
toss a coin to choose between between these two....
26" wheel Long Haul Trucker with rim brakes. Mechanically about as complex as a knife and fork, and a stable, forgiving ride. Ideal for wilderness touring. Not the quickest bike on the block, but most of the time you won't even notice.
Your C de F....maybe with extended steerer and lower gears for your first alpine trip....but you get to ride it first.

Thank you all for the advice!

I am indeed over-thinking this. But as a test-ride on one of these bikes seems to be no option, the internet and your advice is my best source of information

After reading your comments, I guess it might be wise for me to buy a frame instead of these complete bikes. I myself have however no experience at all with building a bike from scratch, so I guess I will have to ask a local shop owner. Hope this doesn't cost me a fortune. Would love to do it myself, as it seems a great way to get to know my future bike, but don't know if this is a good idea if you have absolutely no experience?

As for the frame, I shamefully have to admit I would love to get a Croix de Fer because it's basically the prettiest bike I have ever seen Other people have however recently told me the geometry of the Croix de Fer is pretty racy (a stack/reach ratio of 1.477 on the size 60 frame I would need), while the geometry of the Spech Awol (or the LHT or Kona Sutra for example) is less racy and more touring/comfort oriented (stack/reach ratio of 1.623 on the XL frame, and 1.56 on the XL bike build). They told me stack divided by reach should give me some sort of "comfort index", and that you do not want to ride a a bike with a stack/reach ratio of 1.40 for weeks or months on a row. Can someone tell me if this information I have been given (by a shop owner) is correct? Because then basically what they're saying is that the Croix de Fer is not comfortable enough for long adventures?

Any advice regarding the parts I should get for loaded touring (e.g. which cassette) is also appreciated!

cheers

Its terribly expensive to buy all the bits separately....cheaper to buy your "best guess" bike and swap the bits you don't like.

Stack/reach ratio.....must be the latest gee-whiz, why did we never think of that before idea.
Its essentially flawed. If you look here..http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77786&hilit=awol&start=150...you will see that the AWOL is a long bike. It gets its stack/reach ratio by also having a tall head tube.
The other bikes have lower head tubes.
However, you can buy one of these....http://www.highonbikes.com/bbb-extender-quill-to-ahead-bike-handlebar-stem-adapter.html?gclid=CITowL62tbsCFWbLtAodUw0ABQ#.Uq9NgXZFDNw.......and one of these http://www.highonbikes.com/controls/handlebar-stems-mtb/bbb-highrise-mtb-handlebar-stem-oversize.html#.Uq9QkXZFDNw......and get the handlebars as high as you like ....its the bar height that's important, not the frame height.
Buy a bike that's too long, you can fit a short stem, but theres less adjustment to play with.

Wouldn't an AWOL keep disappearing ?

Very useful information colin, thanks!

Croix de Fer with a different cassette and extended steerer seems like a plan! Only thing left for me to decide is whether the Croix de F has enough tire clearance for what I want to do.

At the moment, the Croix de Fer bikes are all sold out here in Belgium, but if I place an order I should have the bike in February

SamSam wrote:Very useful information colin, thanks!

Croix de Fer with a different cassette and extended steerer seems like a plan! Only thing left for me to decide is whether the Croix de F has enough tire clearance for what I want to do.

At the moment, the Croix de Fer bikes are all sold out here in Belgium, but if I place an order I should have the bike in February

They'll only take a 32x32mm actual section tyre with mudguards.

Indeed, I know, I just have to figure out if that is enough for what I want to do

I favour the Croix de Fer myself. A chap at work has one and they extremely reliable and seem pretty good value for money, for what you get.

I've just built one up myself, I have the 2014 model with the inboard disc brakes.
Specs are:
- 11 Speed Campagnolo Athena Carbon groupset
- TRP Spyre discs (aware of the recall) 160mm rotor out back 180mm XT icetech rotor up front
- H Plus Son 32h Archetypes on XT Dynamo hub up front and Novatec 712SB-11
- B+M Dynamo lights front and back

I've written an ongoing multi-part series on the build http://smutpedaller.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/project-phil-part-1-frame.html

I haven't ridden too much on it thusfar, probably only about 200km or thereabouts, but I absolutely love this bike. Handling is great, the long wheelbase keeps it pretty composed and there is plenty of clearance for reasonably large tyres. I have Challenge Strada Biancas on there which are 31mm or so which have plenty of room under SKS P45 mudguards. However my 34mm knobblies wont fit under the fork with the guards.

The only things negative I have to say is that sometimes my heels will clip the chainstays, I am not a big guy, only 172cm tall and my shoe size is 42 Euro, cranks are 170mm with a 145.5 Q factor. Also the claimed weight (1980g for a 56cm) is way off, mine is the smallest 50cm size and frame only weighed in at 2159g. Anyway here's a pic or two