Cycling UK Forum

Up from behind and Down for front....

I do think it is disconcerting when people change these things. I know of a ladies cycle group where they have decided to reverse the ride difficulty ie A rides are easy and D rides are hard .... I challenged them about saying I thought it was dangerous, as someone could turn up and be on the wrong type of ride, or one oftheir members could join another club's A ride and find themselves in severe difficulty / dropped etc., if they were unaware of the situation.... Of course got shot down in flames in that they were doing it this way around so that slower unfit riders could feel good about themselves for being on an A ride

mjr wrote:.... but British Cycling has published the up (ahead) / down (your neck) directions in guides like
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insightzone/features/article/izn20121221-group-ride-0

does this mean that everyone else is wrong or do they just make stuff up as they go....?

cheers

[XAP]Bob wrote:Frankly - "car" or "oil" should be sufficient. Not really that much need to describe direction - if it's the ride leader calling then it's from the front, if it's the tail calling then it's from behind.

You'd think so wouldn't you....but it's amazing how many people just don't bother looking behind ever/enough*, thus when they are on the back I, as the leader, often spot the car coming behind before they do, despitye the fact that I have to look past a number of cyclists too. They tend only to know it's there when they hear it.

*possibly this is why they are attracted to group rides?

Anyhoo - down=front, up=back, this is the CTC way, thus it is the correct way .
However, I don't really like the use of the word 'oil' as it's pronunciation isn't that sharp, thus it leaves some people (especially on windy days or noisy roads) just wondering "what did he say?"....can sound a bit too much like "oi".

It does indeed seem to be the CTC way and you can find it on the main website at http://ctc.org.uk/files/group-ridingpdfpdf.pdf - I've emailed editor@britishcycling to ask about theirs.

in case anyone is wondering if this is a roadie vs tourist or a regional divide, I can't see how it can be; I learned it the 'up behind' way on group rides in the Eastern counties with lads who were all dyed in the wool BCF members, and when I rode with roadies elsewhere in the country (including down Portsmouth way about 25 years ago now) they did it the same way too.

cheers

Brucey, I also did lots of miles with hard-core roadies and the car up and down convention held with them. I guess that my local club (who attract a lot of new members, it must be said) are formalising their procedures and taking guidance direct from the BCF.

It's a bit disconcerting to be "instructed" on road manners by people who obviously have not been cycling over the same period that I have, but if they don't know my face, then I am a newbie to them!

I guess that I'll have to look both directions next time I'm out with them...

My Tri club uses car back = behind and car up = front. Some people have told us we're wrong but we're used to it now.

I may risk terrible ridicule here, but here goes...

I have never ridden in clubs or in large groups. (a bit like Grucho Marx, I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member)

Me and the two or three people I ride with have been mates since we were kids and ridding our bikes together...We just say 'car behind' and 'car in front'. ie , 'there is a car behind us' and 'there is a car in front of us'

It seems to be pretty clear and we never thought to devise anything else.

Doesn't car in front sound similar to car behind at a distance? Both three similar syllables. Car up and car down sound rather different.

mjr wrote:Doesn't car in front sound similar to car behind at a distance? Both three similar syllables. Car up and car down sound rather different.

I suppose as we get older our ears aren't what they were (and I take your point) but I can't say we've ever had a problem...I kind of guess we read each others body language and quite simply to know there's something coming is enough. We are never very far from each other either.
I see now on paper that front/behind/up have advantages- due to syllables and sound

mjr wrote:Doesn't car in front sound similar to car behind at a distance? Both three similar syllables. Car up and car down sound rather different.

Not to me,but us Welsh pronounce things differently anyway.

Our local CTC DA (as it was then!) formalised what to say in our riders rules some ten years ago.
The reason? Well the up or down was being misinterpreted by even experienced riders frequently. Some thought it made a difference if we as riders were going up or down hill and often miscalled.
The answer? Car BACK means it is behind us; car FRONT means it is ahead of us. No way of misunderstanding.
As for "oil" some people will be calling for the winged wheel to come back next!

Seems to be 'car back' on Colchester CTC rides°. Not sure about 'car front'... not heard it used but then I'm usually at or near the tail end (out of choice!) and I can see the car anyway.

I've only made it to one FortyPlusCC ride but I didn't get corrected for using car back!

* thought it just meant car behind, didn't know it could specifically mean 'car behind needs help to overtake'.

manybikes wrote:As for "oil" some people will be calling for the winged wheel to come back next!

Quite rightly

I started with the South Lancashire Road Club in Cheshire, and we just called "oil". However, I agree that, round here (north Hertfordshire), everyone I come across calls "up" for behind and "down" for in front. It's taken me decades to get used to, and I still often look in the wrong direction.

That's not to say that it makes any sense whatsoever. The one convention that is universal is that, in a road race, the break is one minute up the road and the dropped riders are two minutes down. Hence, it appears, when the break gets far enough up the road, the support car will go down to join them, whilst the dropped riders down the road will eventually need a support car to go up the road in case they puncture.

This is why understanding the Tour de France is so easy.