Cycling UK Forum

Straight pull spokes are the next notch up in wheel building these days. Your hand built jobbies are almost invariably of the flange type.

Yes, of course.

You made the point that Zonda at £300 was at the price point that you could dispose of them when the rims wear out.

I made the point that you can get the same hubs on traditional rims and spokes for less cost and they will be repairable rather than chuck-away-able.

Spare rims and spokes are (or were a few years ago) available for Mavic Ksyriums, as well as the special spoke key to true/rebuild them. I discovered this the hard way after crashing in road race shortly after buying them and buckling the rim beyond repair. A new rim was with me within a few days. The model was current at the time, I do wonder what would happen if I needed another rim now that a newer model has been released.

Other than that crash damage I have had no reliabilty problems with them. The hubs are easy to service - I have done this after a very wet ride and again following some vibration when freewheeling (just needed cleaning internally). The adjustment tools were provided with the wheels when new.

I have two similar pairs and use them for racing, fast summer rides and some extended commuting. They don't get thrashed through the grit and mud on my local lanes in winter!

I have a pair of Fulcrum 3's and a pair of 5's.

The 3's are excellent, but I believe the spokes are a special item, mainly because there is no hole in the rim where a conventional spoke would enter. The surface is completely smooth. No rim tape required therefore, but I can't see how the spokes are fitted, and I've built wheels in the past.

For a tad over £300 though I'd still recommend them if lightness and strength are the main criteria.

rgc_911 wrote:I have a pair of Fulcrum 3's and a pair of 5's.

The 3's are excellent, but I believe the spokes are a special item, mainly because there is no hole in the rim where a conventional spoke would enter. The surface is completely smooth. No rim tape required therefore, but I can't see how the spokes are fitted, and I've built wheels in the past.

For a tad over £300 though I'd still recommend them if lightness and strength are the main criteria.

I don't know the Fulcrum wheels but they sound similar to my Mavic Ksyriums. The rim is pierced and threaded and the spoke nipple screws into the rim. The nipple comes fitted to the spoke and is retained by a ball, formed on the spoke end, that sits in the nipple. The nipple is clearly fitted to the spoke before the final forming is done.

Valbrona wrote:Straight pull spokes are the next notch up in wheel building these days. Your hand built jobbies are almost invariably of the flange type.

I've yet to see any evidence that straight pull spokes are any better than standard ones in terms of strength etc.

I do know of some differences though;

straight pull spokes are
- more difficult to source,
-less versatile ( many spoking patterns are prohibited by the hubs) and
-more expensive.

I alo think they make for a dead ugly set of wheels.

BTW Kysriums (and some other Mavic wheels) have aluminium spokes. Now that is a genuinely dumb idea....

cheers

BTW Kysriums (and some other Mavic wheels) have aluminium spokes.

True, but some Ksyriums have steel ones. Some have carbon fibre ones - really thick round ones!

...thick spokes are for cart wheels aren't they...?

I'll stick with steel ones, ta!

cheers

I have had Aksiums on my Condor or a couple of years. I am no lightweight, but they have held up fine. I was going to hand build a pair of wheels with Ultegra and OpenPros (I build a few ) but was offered these new and unused by a mate who had changed his mind about using them. They were cheaper than i could build a pair for. I haven't regretted it at all.

[quote="Brucey"][quote="Valbrona"]I've yet to see any evidence that straight pull spokes are any better than standard ones in terms of strength etc./quote]

Well, that's a bit like saying 'I've yet to see any evidence that elbow spokes make for a better wheel than straight pull'. But the manufacturers have fast moved in the direction of straight pull spokes, and probably for good reason.

On the subject of serviceability, many Far East wheels use CNSpoke/MAC Spokes which are easily sourced online. My wheels direct from China came with three sample MAC spokes which I already know can be easily sourced.

I can get a workable spoke for any ordinary wheel in any bike shop in the country. Why would I want to get a wheel with 'easily sourced online' (i.e. can't buy them for love nor money except online...) spokes....?

Having different shaped spokes from what we are used to is not a new idea; it is a really really old idea, an idea that that had its day about a hundred years ago or more and (for bicycles but not motorcycles, they are different...) was discarded, 'probably with good reason' to coin a phrase... .

The reasons for which it has been revived for bicycles could be many and various, could be more to do with product differentiation and other marketing BS than with engineering.

If there were a compelling advantage to such spokes I would have expected someone to have told it to me by now; as it is all I've ever heard is a load of waffle really.

cheers

magical_mouse wrote:hi, i may treat myself to a reasonably priced pair of factory racing wheels - fulcrum or shimano or mavic or similar. I have always had normally (3x) spoked 32/36 wheels using shimano 105 hubs and mavic or exal rims and these have been fine.

I am wondering if any factory wheels fulfill the following criteria

1. user servicable (truing/spoke replacement)
2. comfortable over long distances and rough surfaces
3. reliable
4. lighter than above
5. easy to fit tyre


any comments/experiences?

so all your traditional, handbuilt wheels have been fine? so are the questions 1-5 really asking if 'good factory wheels' are better than handbuilts? if so then IME a hand built wheel can equal / surpass (dependent on the wheelbuilder) any factory built wheel. i think it takes a really high end wheel ( GB squad / mavic track wheels etc) to surpass a handbuilt and then only in terms of aerodynamics rather than the criteria you mention.

My long distance machine has Shimano RS20.
No probs.
They are RS21 now, I believe.

To convert a ‘Factory built’ wheel into a ‘Hand built’ wheel.

Loosen off the spokes 1 turn each.
Apply corrosion preventer.
Re-tru and re-tension to your liking.

Done.

Recently I have received 3 wheels for retensioning, after some use, all from a well known West Country supplier. These wheel builds are advertised as "a very high quality wheel built to our master wheel builders exacting standards". On putting them on the jig, two of them were fairly true and one wasn't (the one that had done least miles interestingly).
On all of them the spoke tensions were very uneven, particularly the front one and the LH sides of the rear ones. I must admit to being surprised. Obviously I don't know what use the riders had put them to, but they were all light riders and had been ridden on the road. I would say that none of them had been anywhere near a tensiometer. At the same time I checked a wheel that I had built myself. This wheel had done a trip from Bournemouth to Catterick to Cumbria and back to Bournemouth. It was still true and the tensions were even. The lesson is to use a wheelbuilder you can meet face to face, rather than a faceless subcontractor of a large dealer, who may be paid a low piecework rate. There is no "magic" about building a wheel. It is just a matter of being methodical, taking great care, not watching the clock and not putting the wheel down until it is right.