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Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 15 Oct 2013, 11:08am
by [XAP]Bob
robc02 wrote:...The hubs are easy to service - I have done this after a very wet ride and again following some vibration when freewheeling (just needed cleaning internally). The adjustment tools were provided with the wheels when new.
EVERY wet ride?
Crikey - I'd never get into the house...
I have two similar pairs and use them for racing, fast summer rides and some extended commuting. They don't get thrashed through the grit and mud on my local lanes in winter!
No - I'd not be out on them very often if I needed to service the hubs because of some rain.
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 15 Oct 2013, 12:00pm
by georgew
MikewsMITH2 wrote:Recently I have received 3 wheels for retensioning, after some use, all from a well known West Country supplier. These wheel builds are advertised as "a very high quality wheel built to our master wheel builders exacting standards". On putting them on the jig, two of them were fairly true and one wasn't (the one that had done least miles interestingly).
On all of them the spoke tensions were very uneven, particularly the front one and the LH sides of the rear ones. I must admit to being surprised. Obviously I don't know what use the riders had put them to, but they were all light riders and had been ridden on the road. I would say that none of them had been anywhere near a tensiometer. At the same time I checked a wheel that I had built myself. This wheel had done a trip from Bournemouth to Catterick to Cumbria and back to Bournemouth. It was still true and the tensions were even. The lesson is to use a wheelbuilder you can meet face to face, rather than a faceless subcontractor of a large dealer, who may be paid a low piecework rate. There is no "magic" about building a wheel. It is just a matter of being methodical, taking great care, not watching the clock and not putting the wheel down until it is right.
Having just bought two pairs of factory-built wheels from a German supplier I found that the above was identical to my experience.
While each wheel was true, it was clear that the wheels had not been de-stressed and the spoke tensions were all over the place. It was obvious that none had been checked for spoke tension during the building process.
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 15 Oct 2013, 12:16pm
by Big T
MikewsMITH2 wrote:I have had Aksiums on my Condor or a couple of years. I am no lightweight, but they have held up fine. I was going to hand build a pair of wheels with Ultegra and OpenPros (I build a few
) but was offered these new and unused by a mate who had changed his mind about using them. They were cheaper than i could build a pair for. I haven't regretted it at all.
I had a pair of Aksiums - they were fine for a couple of months, apart from the bladed spokes twisting around so that the flat part was hitting the wind. Then i broke a spoke in the rear wheel - it went so badly out of true that the bike was unrideable and i had to ring my daughter to come and get me.
Took them back to the shop and they repaired the broken spoke, and also noticed the twisted spokes.They suggested that they sent them back to Mavic. Mavic responded that these wheels shouldn't be ridden by anyone over 80kg and that I should have a more expensive pair. They would replace the Aksiums FOC or knock the retail price off a more expensive pair. Having already replaced them with a pair of handbuilt Tiagra/Open Pro's, I said I'd take the Aksium replacements and gave them to my son.
I wouldn't touch another pair with a bargepole. I need wheels that are reliable and if I do break a spoke, they are at least rideable. I'm not against factory wheels - I've got Fulcrums on my summer bike and have used them for 5 years with no problems.
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 15 Oct 2013, 12:56pm
by robc02
[XAP]Bob ยป Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:08 am
robc02 wrote:
...The hubs are easy to service - I have done this after a very wet ride and again following some vibration when freewheeling (just needed cleaning internally). The adjustment tools were provided with the wheels when new.
EVERY wet ride?
Crikey - I'd never get into the house...
I have two similar pairs and use them for racing, fast summer rides and some extended commuting. They don't get thrashed through the grit and mud on my local lanes in winter!
No - I'd not be out on them very often if I needed to service the hubs because of some rain.
Certainly not every wet ride! But after one especially wet ride and several years of no maintenance (other than a rebuild to repair crash damage) I decided that it would be as good a time as any to service them.
I was also making the point that my comments are in the context of racing wheels that get ridden hard, in wet and dry conditions, but only in the spring, summer and autumn. Presumably this is relevant to the OP as he asked about wheels for racing and Audax. I don't use these wheels for my general winter grind - for that I have some with cheap rims, a Sturmey Archer hub gear and dynamo front hub.
...thick spokes are for cart wheels aren't they...?
....and, believe it or not, that's more or less what Mavic said in their blurb (well they said something about working in tension and compression). They didn't mention aerodynamics, though
.
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 15 Oct 2013, 3:46pm
by Brucey
robc02 wrote: .... Presumably this is relevant to the OP as he asked about wheels for racing and Audax. I don't use these wheels for my general winter grind - for that I have some with cheap rims, a Sturmey Archer hub gear and dynamo front hub.
-ah! A
proper bike, then....
...thick spokes are for cart wheels aren't they...?
....and, believe it or not, that's more or less what Mavic said in their blurb (well they said something about working in tension and compression). They didn't mention aerodynamics, though
.
-you couldn't make it up, could you....?
cheers
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 16 Oct 2013, 8:50am
by pliptrot
You really couldn't make it up. There's really nothing wrong with the conventional spoked wheel and the constant attempts to re-invent it smack of marketing BS. Cup and cone hubs from Shimano are untouchable, IMHO, and of course Campag aren't far off. Most of the others make hubs which don't tick many boxes on "good design" sheet. (The old Mavic hubs were superb). I recall a comment form Gerry Shields, in Manchester, from whom I first started buying decent kit with the proceeds of a paper round, "cyclists are gullible. If you could get Bernard Hinault to ride square wheels, everyone would want them." How right he was.
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 16 Oct 2013, 8:59am
by Mick F
As these factory wheelsets have a finite life, why not have cheaper bearings?
What's the point of having a rim that wears out so you have to chuck the whole wheel out, when at the same time the hub bearings have an unlimited life?
Traditional wheels can be repaired like Triggers Broom.
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 16 Oct 2013, 10:40am
by reohn2
pliptrot wrote:You really couldn't make it up. There's really nothing wrong with the conventional spoked wheel and the constant attempts to re-invent it smack of marketing BS. Cup and cone hubs from Shimano are untouchable, IMHO, and of course Campag aren't far off. Most of the others make hubs which don't tick many boxes on "good design" sheet. (The old Mavic hubs were superb). I recall a comment form Gerry Shields, in Manchester, from whom I first started buying decent kit with the proceeds of a paper round, "cyclists are gullible. If you could get Bernard Hinault to ride square wheels, everyone would want them." How right he was.
Spot on!
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 16 Oct 2013, 11:26am
by meic
My indirect experience, so I cant name the wheels, was of a rider getting rammed by a car 100k into a 600k Audax, after dealing with Police, ambulance etc he rode the remaining 500k with at least one broken spoke in the rear, it showed surprisingly little buckle all I know was that it was one of the Carbon Fibre type without adjustable spokes.
The second was a rather cheap pair of factory wheels with a low number of bladed spokes on a 200k Audax. One rear spoke snapped of its own accord, I accompanied the rider from bike shop to bike shop along the route and nobody could offer anything better than sending the wheel off for repair.
Apart from the worry of having a broken spoke he was able to complete the Audax in time.
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 16 Oct 2013, 12:52pm
by mig
pliptrot wrote:You really couldn't make it up. There's really nothing wrong with the conventional spoked wheel and the constant attempts to re-invent it smack of marketing BS. Cup and cone hubs from Shimano are untouchable, IMHO, and of course Campag aren't far off. Most of the others make hubs which don't tick many boxes on "good design" sheet. (The old Mavic hubs were superb). I recall a comment form Gerry Shields, in Manchester, from whom I first started buying decent kit with the proceeds of a paper round, "cyclists are gullible. If you could get Bernard Hinault to ride square wheels, everyone would want them." How right he was.
he's a good fella that bloke!! along with his son. (my LBS)
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 16 Oct 2013, 2:34pm
by pliptrot
mig wrote:he's a good fella that bloke!! along with his son. (my LBS)
So the shop is still going? That gladdens the heart....is it still a "real" bike shop (i.e. lots of stuff, including chaos, and almost no window dressing)? The other shop I frequented was Derrick Clarke's in Oldham, where you could always get a lecture on how good Campagnolo was. No doubt, after 15 years away, I wouldn't recognise anything or anyone in Manchester.
Re: good factory wheels - racing/audax
Posted: 16 Oct 2013, 4:06pm
by mig
pliptrot wrote:mig wrote:he's a good fella that bloke!! along with his son. (my LBS)
So the shop is still going? That gladdens the heart....is it still a "real" bike shop (i.e. lots of stuff, including chaos, and almost no window dressing)? The other shop I frequented was Derrick Clarke's in Oldham, where you could always get a lecture on how good Campagnolo was. No doubt, after 15 years away, I wouldn't recognise anything or anyone in Manchester.
yes it's going strong!! i was in there on saturday. gerry is still riding down most days (i think that he is 87 now) whilst chris mans the shop all the time. as to whether it is a real bike shop - YES!! if you want any old rims or leather shoes with (deliberate) holes in then he's yer man. fantastic customer service. window dressing? perish the thought.
if i need something i go there first rather than this new fangled interweb thingy.
derrick clarke's became oldham cycle centre then became surosa. no longer derrick - it's nigel bishop and his wife mandy jones. yes - that mandy jones 1982 goodwood and all that.