Soto Micro regulator gas stove

[foxyrider]

Has anyone got one of these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360731623875? ... 1438.l2649 or this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360692632522? ... 1438.l2649

I'm thinking of upgrading from my trusty Markill Pocket Rocket so any feedback would be appreciated.

[andrew_s]

Will you notice any improvement over the MSR Pocket Rocket?

Don't put much faith in the "regulator" valve in the Soto - all it can do is to automatically open up the valve to try to maintain constant gas flow. You'll still get poor performance as you get towards the end of the canister, as there's no getting round the fact that butane doesn't evaporate below zero and there won't be any propane left much past half used. The only way to maintain output to the end is to use the canister upside down to feed liquid gas to the burner via a pre-heat loop - cheap example, more expensive. The downside is that they are heavier and more bulky.

[foxyrider]

Well that is why i asked the question!

Never had any issues with the PR in using the whole tin of gas although it never gets used in particularly cold conditions. So what i'm trying to ascertain before parting with 80 squids is whether the burner set up is more efficient on either of these than the PR?

[andymiller]

If you're looking for greater fuel efficiency, I think (I know very very little about stoves - andrew_s is the house expert) that you need to look at the cooking systems with heat exchangers (eg Jetboil or Primus - know doubt there are others).

You would get a a wider spread of flame swith the type you're looking at - so maybe a bit more even heat.

You might want to consider the Optimus Crux which folds down smaller than a very small thing.

Or even their new Vega stove which is pretty light, folds up, and does the upside-downy thing. (They also say that it has an efficiency mode, but so far as I can tell the figures they give don't enable you to work out how much more efficient it is).

[foxyrider]

Nice stoves but neither has a piezo ignitor - i am not carrying a lighter or matches thank you!

[gadik]

Nice stoves but neither has a piezo ignitor - i am not carrying a lighter or matches thank you!

You better do. A Piezo stops working at altitude of 3000-3500 meters. Piezo lighters too. So, i would advise to carry a spare lighter in any case - BIC lighters with wheels are very good.

[foxyrider]

Nice stoves but neither has a piezo ignitor - i am not carrying a lighter or matches thank you!

You better do. A Piezo stops working at altitude of 3000-3500 meters. Piezo lighters too. So, i would advise to carry a spare lighter in any case - BIC lighters with wheels are very good.

the highest i'm ever likely to be camping and using the stove is @ 1500m so not any kind of issue for me

[bikepacker]

Nice stoves but neither has a piezo ignitor - i am not carrying a lighter or matches thank you!

You better do. A Piezo stops working at altitude of 3000-3500 meters. Piezo lighters too. So, i would advise to carry a spare lighter in any case - BIC lighters with wheels are very good.

First thing I do when I get a stove with a piezo is remove it, they are very prone to failing. I use a Firesteel http://www.lightmyfire.com/products/spa ... el-20.aspx works in all weathers.

[tatanab]

First thing I do when I get a stove with a piezo is remove it, they are very prone to failing.

The piezo on my Markill has been faultless in the 10 years I've owned it, low level camping. I've used it to light other people's stoves when matches do not light.

When using a Trangia I use a lighter. I don't think I've ever bought one because they can regularly be found on the roadside.

[foxyrider]

The piezzo on my PR has never failed in 14 years, fair to say the highest its been used was at the campsite on the top of the Jaun Pass last summer at @ 1450m.

[LondonBikeCommuter]

The pot supports are a nightmare but aprt from that i have no complaints

[andrew_s]

Since this topic has come back to the top, and andymiller has appointed me as the expert, I thought I'd add some detail.

1) Pans:
Titanium pans are considerably tougher than aluminium pans are (dent resistant, immune to scourer pads), but titanium doesn't conduct heat very well. The result is that the pan base heats up more, and you are more likely to burn whatever you are cooking onto the base. The Jetboil Sol Titanium comes with a warning "for water boiling only" - don't ignore this: people have burnt off the heat exchanger flanges from the base by using one to heat baked beans, with the gloopy beans not removing heat from the base of the pan fast enough to keep the aluminium exchanger flanges from burning up..

2) Fuel Performance:
A gas stove ought to boil a half litre of cold water in 2-3 minutes. A petrol or paraffin stove has similar boil times, but you may have 1-2 minutes start-up time to add. A meths stove is more likely to be in the 6-8 minute range. In general, you will get better fuel efficiency by not running a gas stove at full blast - if you do this, a lot of heat is wasted round the sides of the pan. A Jetboil style heat exchanger pan will both improve general efficiency and allow the use of higher power without wasting heat round the side. A windshield is also very helpful. The amount of fuel needed for a half litre is around 7-8 grams, in good conditions.

3) Gas:
Not all gas is alike. There are 3 gases used in camping stoves: Propane (3 carbon), n-Butane (4 carbon in a line), and isobutane (4 carbon in a Y arrangement). Propane boils at -42°C, n-Butane boils at about 0°C. and isobutane boils at about -12°C. It isn't possible to use pure propane in a bike/backpacking canister - the canister would rupture if it got too hot (eg in the back of a car in the sun), or if strong enough not to rupture would be too heavy to carry. If you have a mix, the boiling point is intermediate, but you'll get the gas with the lower boiling point being boiled off preferentially. If the canister is used in the normal manner, upright to give a gas feed, the boiling off of the liquid gas will reduce the temperature of the remaining gas, and may reduce it down to close to the boiling point of the remaining liquid gas mix. This, in combination with the changing gas mix due to preferential boil off, is why the performance of a gas stove tails off towards the end of the canister. In cool weather, the performance may reduce far enough to be similar to that of a meths stove, and if it's down to zero overnight, you may not be able to get the stove started if you didn't keep the canister in your sleeping bag with you.
A "standard" gas mix is 80/20 n-Butane/Propane. If this is used in the normal manner with the canister upright to give a gas feed, all of the propane will have been used by the time the canister is half used. Provided it's warm enough to get the stove started, a close-fitting windshield will reflect enough heat back down onto the canister to get round the reduction in performance as the gas gets used.
The best gas mix is the Jetboil "Jetpower" fuel, which is an isobutane/propane mix. MSR (Isopro) and Primus (Powergas) also sell good propane/isobutane/n-butane gas mixes.

4) Liquid feed
Some gas stoves (those with a hose and a preheat loop*) may be used with the gas canister upside down, to feed liquid gas to the burner. If this is done, the gas doesn't get vapourised until it reaches the preheat loop, different gases in a mix don't get used preferentially, and the remaining gas in the canister doesn't get cooled. This means that the stove retains full performance right to the end of the canister. The downside is that the stoves are generally heavier than Pocket Rocket style canister-top stoves. Make sure the stove is running properly BEFORE turning the canister upside down.
Suitable models include: MSR Windpro, Primus Express Spider, Edelrid Opilio, Karrimor Alpine (cheapest), Trangia gas adapter, Jetboil Helios

* a preheat loop is where the gas feed passes through the flame in a steel or brass tube on its route between the canister and the burner.

If you use a canister-top gas stove like the Pocket Rocket, a set of canister feet is very handy. This MSR model is the most accommodating of the various sizes on canister

[foxyrider]

The pot supports are a nightmare but aprt from that i have no complaints

Can you enlarge on that? What's the problem?

[LondonBikeCommuter]

They colapse with the slightest touch. Even happened when taking hot pot off stove.

[andymiller]

Titanium pans are considerably tougher than aluminium pans are (dent resistant, immune to scourer pads), but titanium doesn't conduct heat very well. The result is that the pan base heats up more, and you are more likely to burn whatever you are cooking onto the base.

following the pot-stand link I came across this - a stainless steel cooking pot.



A 100g heavier than an similar-sized MSR titanium but 100g might be a price worth paying for not burning your beans or indeed setting fire to your flanges.