Cycling UK Forum

Maybe I'm crazy, but I nearly always know in the back of my mind roughly what gear I'm in, without having to look at anything...

I know roughly, yes, but maybe not enough to avoid the occasional cross-chaining. I don't like using a cape with STIs for that reason. (Actually there are other reasons I don't like using a cape but they come in handy at times. )

LWaB wrote:With bar end shifters, I know what gear the bike is in at night. Judging by the amount of cross-chaining I see on other bikes after dark, STI and similar have a major disadvantage.

Just for clarity. Are you saying that people riding with STIs at night can't see what gear they're in... ...but you can (see what gear they're in)?

You can normally feel what gear yu are in through the pedals, but you don't know what ratio you are in......thus middle ring to middle sprocket can feel like big ring to big sprocket or there abouts. With STI you need to look down to see if the chain is at a bad angle, but with BEs you can feel it from the position of the levers. Of course, some people hardly ever leave the middle ring and so this won't be a problem for them, but others do, and if you are on a double compact it can be worse if big-big is similar to small-small. Through in a bit of traffic, plenty of hills, a bit of rubbish weather, worrying about navigation etc (eg normal audax night riding conditions) and you soon lose track of what ratio you are in.

I think its fair to say that there are riders who will use any combination of front and rear cogs without giving it a second thought, and there are others who want to keep the chain line as straight as possible for as much of the time as possible......and probably all stations in between.
Bar end and downtube levers make it obvious by their angle which cog is in use, so if you care about chain line it soon becomes second nature to keep the chain straight, it doesn't need looking at or thinking about. If you don't care about chain line, I don't suppose it matters.

Dumped the bar ends on my Galaxy after about 12 months and Shimergoed it with Campag shifters. Best thing I have ever done to a bike after putting air in the tyres.

I wouldnt be without sti on my 1-Down. Maybe if you are young, very fit and strong a little bit extra effort dont make much difference, but I have found with the years piling up, my RSX sti, I can change gears second by second as the terrain and/or my strength changes. Makes for a much more pleasant ride. Down tube changers are probably the worst ever invention in practice, have never used bar end, but would think on drop bars must be a bit awkward to learn how to change them? The oft given reason for them that they are so simple they cant really break - how many sti have ever given up on tour - may be we need to do a census? How much of an urban myth is it?

If you're doing a survey,I can report the failure of a bar end lever...
On USS bars on a recumbent bike,I was touring overseas in a developing country and a curious crowd pressed too close at a roadside stall and pushed the loaded bike off its propstand. Result - one snapped bar end lever.
The important point was I was able to find a cheap plastic lever in the nearest town and clamp it to the bar end as a fix. This was a perfectly serviceable remedy for several more months' touring. Of course,I could have got a replacement flown in from a UK store (as I could have done if it had been a damaged STI lever), but I think it demonstrates the easy repairability of bar end levers.

I now use Rohloff, and rely on it being indestructible...

Even if you are touring in far off places, you could take a bar end shifter with you as a spare. If your STI breaks, recable with the bar end shifter. A BES doesn't weigh much or take up much room.

Do BES users really know the exact gear that they are in by the position of the BES? I've never done much night riding and I mainly use the middle ring on a triple or the inner on a double, so I would never ride BIG/BIG anyway.

It's a little amusing reading all the likes and dislikes. However comments about the indestructability of certain components doesn't equate to my experience. When I did more CTC tours only twice have I come across someone being totally stuck (not being able to effect any repair) because of component failure. One was a Rohloff the other was, you guessed it, Stis. Both had to forgo part of the tour due to the unavailability of spares.

I still havent seen any advantage of BES that the downtube levers dont offer.
I am not about to change from my STIs back to down tube as I like to keep my hands on the bars when the going is rough.
Even if STIs were to be unreliable and I havent seen any thing worse than a broken cable, it is very very simple to rig up something like a DT lever or, if you like, a BES.

Anybody who wants and likes a BES then I would not argue against your choice at all.
However the arguments against STIs are really without substance, also DT levers were being banded onto bikes before braze ons were fitted for that purpose and they can go there again.

I wouldnt abandon my STIs because of fears of potential roadside failures but I might just make sure that I knew how to rig up an alternative in case of failure, just as I would if I had DT or BES fitted.

My Holdsworth has had the redundant DT shifters left on the frame for thousands of miles now, it wasnt worth removing them. It is planned to come apart for some treatment to its severe rust problem, I dont think that I will bother putting them back on. STI failure isnt likely enough to worry me.

meic wrote:, it is very very simple to rig up something like a DT lever or, if you like, a BES.

Unless you are stuck in an area of Thailand where no spares are available and the changer is so jammed up it is impossible to free it without the proper tools.

You honestly think that the Thai's could not rig up a way of pulling a cable and attach it to your bike?

They could rig something up that worked in no time and dead cheap too.

I rigged something up so she could use the front mech with one rear gear. This only got her to the next village where she got a lift to the next town. There she waited 2 days for us to catch her up, I then acquired a DT lever and got her back on the road.

With levers breaking we have to remember that it's not just the lever itself. If, for instance, you bend the mech hanger such that the indexing can't be set, the STI will work after a fashion but will be annoying as it slips at the wrong moment. With BE or DT you can just plonk it into friction mode and carry on with perfect shifts.

I emphasise that I am not saying the BE are the be-all and end-all. Rather, that each shifter has pros and cons, and reliability is higher with BEs and DTs than STIs. I've had a couple of STIs break such that I could not change gear, yet I've never had a DT or BE do that. If I'm riding locally that's not really a big thing, but even though it can still be overcome on tour, it can be a real PITA that you could do without.

I still have STI on my race MTB because it is great for that with its quick precise shifts, but really see no reason why I should have it on my tourer or town bike (although if it came on a tourer I probably wouldn't bother changing it unless I was planning a big tour, and my town bike has thumbies so the best of all worlds: can change without having to move hands but also rugged and have a friction mode).