Bar end levers - why?

[reohn2]

STI bodies are all plastic, bar-ends are almost completely metal, so they tend to be a bit tougher. Furthermore, being located inside a tube, they rotate under a heavy impact. It's not perfect, but better. The killer impact on any front end is usually high-siding it when the bike trips over the front wheel. This always ends up with the steering turning into the ground and results in the front of the bars / levers hitting the road. Barcons are well out of it at this stage.

There are any number of ways to wreck b/ends and STI's FTM,accidents are never predictable by their very nature.
If you wanted a safe,out of the way place for gear levers it'd be on the downtube and TBH it's no more inconvenient a place than b/ends,the hand moves no further to the d/t than to the b/end unless riding on the drops.

The one thing I don;t like about them is that they are thin, fairly pointy-tipped and could probably give a nasty injury if you land on them.

If you mean b/ends yes I agree, a knee or thigh can take a fair bash from a pointy b/end whereas a bar end plug is a little softer and slightly less blunt

[reohn2]

Yes but that was to save grams,not because he was concerned about equipment failure

Not sure about that, and I quote
"Weight savings was never the issue. They had no trouble getting the bike down to the UCI minimum. He did it because he wanted the trim and Shimano doesn't give you that option with their brifter. "

Ah! sounds like a chap of extreme chainlines.
But then he had other extremes too

[mercalia]

STI bodies are all plastic, bar-ends are almost completely metal, so they tend to be a bit tougher. Furthermore, being located inside a tube, they rotate under a heavy impact. It's not perfect, but better. The killer impact on any front end is usually high-siding it when the bike trips over the front wheel. This always ends up with the steering turning into the ground and results in the front of the bars / levers hitting the road. Barcons are well out of it at this stage. The one thing I don;t like about them is that they are thin, fairly pointy-tipped and could probably give a nasty injury if you land on them.

My RSX STI are all metal bodies

I love them for that

[RonK]

Furthermore, being located inside a tube, they rotate under a heavy impact. It's not perfect, but better.

STI are correctly fitted with the clamps tightened appropriately to allow them to rotate around the bar under impact. Check.

The killer impact on any front end is usually high-siding it when the bike trips over the front wheel. This always ends up with the steering turning into the ground and results in the front of the bars / levers hitting the road.

Since the subject is touring bikes, I can assure you from experience that in crash situations most impact is absorbed by the panniers, and it's rarely that the bike is damaged. Check.

[bigjim]

But then he had other extremes too

I think you'll find it was more the norm. Maybe still is.

[bretonbikes]

STI bodies are all plastic, bar-ends are almost completely metal, so they tend to be a bit tougher. Furthermore, being located inside a tube, they rotate under a heavy impact. It's not perfect, but better. The killer impact on any front end is usually high-siding it when the bike trips over the front wheel. This always ends up with the steering turning into the ground and results in the front of the bars / levers hitting the road. Barcons are well out of it at this stage.

There are any number of ways to wreck b/ends and STI's FTM,accidents are never predictable by their very nature.
If you wanted a safe,out of the way place for gear levers it'd be on the downtube and TBH it's no more inconvenient a place than b/ends,the hand moves no further to the d/t than to the b/end unless riding on the drops.

The one thing I don;t like about them is that they are thin, fairly pointy-tipped and could probably give a nasty injury if you land on them.

If you mean b/ends yes I agree, a knee or thigh can take a fair bash from a pointy b/end whereas a bar end plug is a little softer and slightly less blunt

It's amazing how sticky-out-bits of bikes can puncture you - we had one customer who managed to impale his inner thigh right onto a brake lever - doc said it missed the femoral artery by mms...

Cleaned the lever and it was good as new;-)

[jjpeterberger]

Since this is the Touring & Expedition subforum...

I've been using barend and downtube shifters since the mid-70's. When index shifting became available to me in the early 80's, I tried it but went back to friction only on my road and touring bikes just a few years later. Only my mountain bikes kept indexing beyond that time due to the increased number of factors trying to put me in the dirt!

I find the basic simplicity and reliability of non-index shifters more than meet my needs to pull on a wire to shift gears. While touring or road riding for fun, I'm never shifting under duress of a breakaway and I pay attention to terrain changes and my own cadence so I don't panic shift when the roadway turns up. I learned to shift gears correctly (it's not difficult) not just click a lever.

Any reference to shifting and braking at the same time, efficiency in shifting or not wanting to take a hand off the hoods seems a bit misplaced on THIS subforum. If we were racing or pretending to be racing and there was a paycheck on the line, the arguments may hold some water.

Again, these statements are in the context of THIS subforum, YMMV.

Enjoy the ride,
Jay

[reohn2]

One plus I forgot to mention about Kelly Take Off's over STI's,you can change gear from the tops with Kellys without the hand leaving the 'bars,with STI's you have to be on either drops or hoods.
If you use cross top interrupter levers in conjunction with Kelly's it's even more of a plus.

[foxyrider]

Any reference to shifting and braking at the same time, efficiency in shifting or not wanting to take a hand off the hoods seems a bit misplaced on THIS subforum.
Jay

er why?

i commute daily on a bike with d/t shifters which is fine - it gets abused and the biggest service issue is new cables!

However on my touring and sportive bikes i use Ergo's / Sti's (i have bikes with both) which i find much more conducive to enjoyable riding. The last thing i want when i'm fully loaded and i need to make an unexpected gear change is to take my hands off the bars and possibly have to play with the lever to get it in gear a la non indexed d/t or b/e levers. i can stay in full control, see where i'm going and if necessary brake without moving my hands. So far from being inappropriate on here i think its very much the opposite.

[bretonbikes]

Any reference to shifting and braking at the same time, efficiency in shifting or not wanting to take a hand off the hoods seems a bit misplaced on THIS subforum.
Jay

er why?

i commute daily on a bike with d/t shifters which is fine - it gets abused and the biggest service issue is new cables!

However on my touring and sportive bikes i use Ergo's / Sti's (i have bikes with both) which i find much more conducive to enjoyable riding. The last thing i want when i'm fully loaded and i need to make an unexpected gear change is to take my hands off the bars and possibly have to play with the lever to get it in gear a la non indexed d/t or b/e levers. i can stay in full control, see where i'm going and if necessary brake without moving my hands. So far from being inappropriate on here i think its very much the opposite.

As always it's all personal preference and the type of riding people do - let's hope that we continue to have the choice...

[bikepacker]

I wonder what percentage of people prefer Corn Flakes to Weetabix for breakfast? Isn't this debate just about the same? Whatever you prefer!

[Dudley Manlove]

Any reference to shifting and braking at the same time, efficiency in shifting or not wanting to take a hand off the hoods seems a bit misplaced on THIS subforum.
Jay

er why?

i commute daily on a bike with d/t shifters which is fine - it gets abused and the biggest service issue is new cables!

However on my touring and sportive bikes i use Ergo's / Sti's (i have bikes with both) which i find much more conducive to enjoyable riding. The last thing i want when i'm fully loaded and i need to make an unexpected gear change is to take my hands off the bars and possibly have to play with the lever to get it in gear a la non indexed d/t or b/e levers. i can stay in full control, see where i'm going and if necessary brake without moving my hands. So far from being inappropriate on here i think its very much the opposite.

I agree. For me, convienance and ease of shifting has a pretty big impact on my enjoyment of a ride - it's fairly high up in the mix anyhow, put it like that. I'm not bothered about racing or speed, it's just one less thing to worry about and let you get on with and enjoy your time on the bike.

I'd suggest the OP go on some test rides and see what he/she likes. 10minutes of riding might answer the question pretty clearly one way or another. Mainly used to riding flatbar bikes with trigger shifters, the first time I rode with barends I knew within a couple of miles they were gonna drive me nuts, and I gave them a good go, but ultimately they had to go.

[wilfster]

Thanks very much for all the massive amount of replies, I have really appreciated the expert advice and variety of viewpoints - this is what the forum is about for me. For what it's worth, and having had a look at some bikes, I am coming down on the side of STI's, although my ancient Raleigh clubman will still continue to sport it's downtube levers, it is the smoothest bike I've ever ridden and I want it to stay that way!

[reohn2]

I wonder what percentage of people prefer Corn Flakes to Weetabix for breakfast? Isn't this debate just about the same? Whatever you prefer!

It depends whether they've tried all the 'processed cereals' on offer
For my breakfast pleasure in order of 'taste' are:-
STI's(Shimano) complete with 'washing lines'
Kelly Take Off's as an extremely close second,a lovely bit of kit .
A poor third equally b/ends and d/tube levers,after Kelly's and STI's they're are primitive.

The first time I used STI's(early '97,7sp RSX and still changing as good as the day I bought them,they now have in excess of 75,000miles on them)I couldn't believe how much more convenient they were,I found I changed gear more often and very quickly found I was always willing to find the right gear because of that.With D/T levers I'd dig in sometimes instead of reaching down for the lever especially when tired.This convenience made my cycling a lot more enjoyable.
The first time I saw Kelly's was on a second hand Thorn Discovery tandem we bought,I very quickly realised how convenient these were too and became a convert after initially thinking they were a bit of a gimmick.I can't recommend them highly enough,if you like b/ends,Kelly's take them or d/tube levers,(literally) to another level

[mrjemm]

I wonder what percentage of people prefer Corn Flakes to Weetabix for breakfast? Isn't this debate just about the same? Whatever you prefer!

It depends whether they've tried all the 'processed cereals' on offer
For my breakfast pleasure in order of 'taste' are:-
STI's(Shimano) complete with 'washing lines'
Kelly Take Off's as an extremely close second,a lovely bit of kit .
A poor third equally b/ends and d/tube levers,after Kelly's and STI's they're are primitive.

The first time I used STI's(early '97,7sp RSX and still changing as good as the day I bought them,they now have in excess of 75,000miles on them)I couldn't believe how much more convenient they were,I found I changed gear more often and very quickly found I was always willing to find the right gear because of that.With D/T levers I'd dig in sometimes instead of reaching down for the lever especially when tired.This convenience made my cycling a lot more enjoyable.
The first time I saw Kelly's was on a second hand Thorn Discovery tandem we bought,I very quickly realised how convenient these were too and became a convert after initially thinking they were a bit of a gimmick.I can't recommend them highly enough,if you like b/ends,Kelly's take them or d/tube levers,(literally) to another level

I like the analogy. Last night I nearly posted something along the same lines as bikepacker puts across, though without the analogy. It's all a matter of taste.

Was also going to say that I really should try to find a use for the Kellys I got hold of, and are sitting unused at the moment, but neither of the 2 impending projects will be using drops... I'd suggest converting Madame's current ride (DTs) to them, but I recall it being said they're not good for small mitts. One of the builds will have bar-ends anyway, the other MTB triggers.

In our case though, both of us independently chose against STIs, both of us have only had one set, and both times Tiagra, but I chose bar-ends (at the point of moving away from STIs), and Madame chose down-tubes. Both of us did this out of not liking using them. Nothing to do with simplicity or reliability, just preference.

I like BEs a lot, more than other types in fact, but I've not found them to be the be-all and end-all of simplicity. My SRAM (TT500 10 spd) ones have a very fine line between being too loose (& slipping) and too tight, whilst with my Shimano (Dura Ace 9spd), the ratchet/friction selection is unreliable- select friction, and a few miles down the road it'll have creeped back into indexing.

Quite surprised nobody has mentioned Retroshift yet, but I guess those are even more vulnerable than BEs and still rare.