Recommend a tent?

[bikepacker]

When the first Luxe tents were introduced into the UK Michael Wong had never heard of a Scottish midge. However once he was made aware of them he set about designing and making inner tents of finer mesh that will keep them at bay. I believe all the new models now have midge proof no see um mesh.

[rualexander]

Mountain Equipment tents seem to get a bit overlooked in these discussions, but are well worth considering.
The Tundra is similar to the Hilleberg Nallo, a bit less quality and made in China I think (as compared to Hillebergs which are now made in Estonia) and is £299 at Ellis-Brigham
Also the Dragonfly 2XT which is free standing apart from the porch which needs a couple of pegs to tension it, but is a bit pricier at £419.
I have a Dragonfly 2, without the XT size porch, and I like it but is no longer made.
I also have a Hilleberg Nallo 2, and a Hilleberg Stalon, and a North Face Nebula, and a Saunders Jetpacker Plus, and had but sold on a Hilleberg Soulo, which I wasn't so keen on and replaced with the Nallo.

http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/the ... ra_2---490

[pjclinch]

i think i just got a kick in the balls from PJ
will ya relax for god sake its a friggan tent we talking about.

While on the one hand we're talking about a tent which is not that important in itself, on the other we're also talking about someone else's spending money and their camping comfort for the next few years. Boring, yes, but actually true with it!

Pete.

[pjclinch]

No tent-focused phrase or saying so likely to get the experts going so much as that H-word...

Why would I want to wear a helmet in my tent? ...

[bikepacker]

i think i just got a kick in the balls from PJ
will ya relax for god sake its a friggan tent we talking about.

While on the one hand we're talking about a tent which is not that important in itself, on the other we're also talking about someone else's spending money and their camping comfort for the next few years. Boring, yes, but actually true with it!

Pete.

Jags is always proclaiming his lack of disposable funds but I think he secretly is one of the richest men in Ireland.

[pjclinch]

I would say my maximum is £400, simply because I'd be afraid to damage anything more expensive and I would like to try wild camping so a soft grassy pitch may not be guaranteed.

I think this is the wrong way around...

The most expensive tent I have is specifically for camping in the harshest places: money has been spent on making it robust so it doesn't get damaged. And like a good bike, a good tent can be repaired if things do go The Way Of The Pear. If you use a cheaper tent because you're afraid of damaging it then you're actually more likely to come out with a damaged tent.

In a tent with a price north of £400 you're typically paying that much for light and strong materials. I am often struck by the absurdity of folk going out of their way to buy especially light and flimsy tents but then never camping without extra groundsheet protectors because they're afraid they'll break them...

Pete.

[profpointy]

Dont get me wrong hilleberg make great tents that's for sure, but really they could surly come up with a much better desigh and a much cheaper tent for the cycle tourist. all there tents seem to be 4 season for the adventure cyclist or mountain climbers, i'm neither and if i wanted to buy a hilleberg i would have to take out a bank load,i did own the akto hated it like sleeping in a coffin and not a lot of room seriously would not like to spend more than one night in it thats for sure.
most cycle tourers tour in the summer months ok, i know there a few hard chaws out there but it's a summer sport or hobby.so why then does hilleberg not cater for people like me,surly it cant be that hard for the designers to come up with the perfect cycle touring tent.
light.
stront.
easy to pitch.
pitch all in one.
weatherproof.
loads room.
easy on the pocket.
simple enough hilleberg thing of the millions of these tents you could sell .
ok so put me up against the wall and shoot me for thinking such thoughts.

Hilleberg's tents meet all bar one of the above criteria - which one they don't meet I leave as an excercise for the reader

[hamster]

I am often struck by the absurdity of folk going out of their way to buy especially light and flimsy tents but then never camping without extra groundsheet protectors because they're afraid they'll break them...

Pete.

I absolutely agree. Loads of armchair specmanship rather than experience of trying them in real conditions leads to groundsheets as thin as flysheets.

[jags]

bikepacker you know me money burns a hole in my pocket when ever i have it
if i could afford to spend big money on a tent the nallo gt2 would be top of the list even though its not the perfect cycle touring tent.might be fantastic on top of a windy mountain top , but jags aint heading that direction.

to me the TP style tent design is probably best.but they also have issues or so i'm led to believe.
the bottom (skirt) doesnt go fully to the ground so makes for a breezy tent inside.might as well do without it if thats the case.
the inner is also not wind proof.now i know what your all thinking why doesn't he buy a caravan or a motorhome, mind you the price of some of these top of the range tents i could probably pick either one up.

lads please don't be offended by my comments.
as i said i'm a fair weather tourer know feck all about tents and how there put together but my point is you experience campers know all this stuff you know you could come up with a better design in a cycle touring tent ,i'm not talking about mountain tents .as a matter of fact one of the lads in the fellclub made a tent to suit his needs so it can be done.

[DaleFTW]

bikepacker you know me money burns a hole in my pocket when ever i have it
if i could afford to spend big money on a tent the nallo gt2 would be top of the list even though its not the perfect cycle touring tent.might be fantastic on top of a windy mountain top , but jags aint heading that direction.

to me the TP style tent design is probably best.but they also have issues or so i'm led to believe.
the bottom (skirt) doesnt go fully to the ground so makes for a breezy tent inside.might as well do without it if thats the case.
the inner is also not wind proof.now i know what your all thinking why doesn't he buy a caravan or a motorhome, mind you the price of some of these top of the range tents i could probably pick either one up.

lads please don't be offended by my comments.
as i said i'm a fair weather tourer know feck all about tents and how there put together but my point is you experience campers know all this stuff you know you could come up with a better design in a cycle touring tent ,i'm not talking about mountain tents .as a matter of fact one of the lads in the fellclub made a tent to suit his needs so it can be done.

Make your own, that's what I'm doing, but unless you nail it first time, it won't be cheap.

When you say TP, which are you referring to?

[pjclinch]

bikepacker you know me money burns a hole in my pocket when ever i have it
if i could afford to spend big money on a tent the nallo gt2 would be top of the list even though its not the perfect cycle touring tent.might be fantastic on top of a windy mountain top , but jags aint heading that direction.

So why would it be top of your list? (it's not top of mine as I prefer the different set of compromises in the kaitum, 2 porches and better venting and more spacious inner vs. slightly lighter and porch you can park in).

to me the TP style tent design is probably best.but they also have issues or so i'm led to believe.
the bottom (skirt) doesnt go fully to the ground so makes for a breezy tent inside.

Very much implementation dependent, Plenty of tipi-style pyramid tents that go all the way to the ground. In fact I'd not come across any that don't.

the inner is also not wind proof.

Again this is down to implementation. No shortage of Tipis where the inner is optional altogether.

now i know what your all thinking why doesn't he buy a caravan or a motorhome, mind you the price of some of these top of the range tents i could probably pick either one up.

You get what you pay for. Part of what you pay for is being able to pack it on to a bike...

lads please don't be offended by my comments.
as i said i'm a fair weather tourer know feck all about tents and how there put together but my point is you experience campers know all this stuff you know you could come up with a better design in a cycle touring tent ,i'm not talking about mountain tents .as a matter of fact one of the lads in the fellclub made a tent to suit his needs so it can be done.

Absolutely no offence taken, and please don't take any from my attempts to correct what I see as misapprehensions on your part. You still don't seem to have realised that "a cycle touring tent" is not a single job with the same answers for every camper, any more than "touring bike". Our last cycle tour before we adopted our children my wife and I spent a week in the Western Isles, with wild camping on exposed beaches and gale force winds and heavy rain at times. There's not really much difference between that and a mountain top in terms of what the tent has to take, but that's just as much "cycle camping" as formal sites with plenty of shelter. Tent design is all about compromise: every design out there is compromised in some way, and that there are so many different designs is because there are so many different uses and perspectives on what constitutes "good". I'm willing to trade some weight for more space and strength, others want lighter, others will take heavier still against either a lower price or more space and/or strength, some really like free-standing, etc. etc.
You show me a "perfect" cycle touring tent and I'll very easily come up with some aspect of cycle camping it's not best suited for. Experience shows that one size (or design) does not fit all.

Pete.

[DaleFTW]

[pjclinch]

Make your own, that's what I'm doing, but unless you nail it first time, it won't be cheap.

And while you can have any design you like, you don't get a free run at workmanship. To get a seam as good as one of Hilleberg's I'd need a highly specialised machine and a professional cloth-wragler, which in practice means contracting it out to a pro used to awkward slippy cloth, or a pro used to bonding cuben... So if one's design happens to eschew tapes for top quality seams or bonds (which my "ideal" tent would) then it wouldn't be cheap even if it was right first time! And it probably won't be right first time... The chaps at Alpkit felt their attempt at a lightweight sufficiently compromised that they sold them off at very low prices with a warning that they felt them not good enough, and they know what they're doing.

Part of what you pay for with the likes of a Hilleberg is having folk test and refine prototypes very extensively in all sorts of conditions. The perfect tent (or indeed anything) as a thought-experiment is much, much easier than the real thing, I suspect!

Pete.

[DaleFTW]

Make your own, that's what I'm doing, but unless you nail it first time, it won't be cheap.

And while you can have any design you like, you don't get a free run at workmanship. To get a seam as good as one of Hilleberg's I'd need a highly specialised machine and a professional cloth-wragler, which in practice means contracting it out to a pro used to awkward slippy cloth, or a pro used to bonding cuben... So if one's design happens to eschew tapes for top quality seams or bonds (which my "ideal" tent would) then it wouldn't be cheap even if it was right first time! And it probably won't be right first time... The chaps at Alpkit felt their attempt at a lightweight sufficiently compromised that they sold them off at very low prices with a warning that they felt them not good enough, and they know what they're doing.

Part of what you pay for with the likes of a Hilleberg is having folk test and refine prototypes very extensively in all sorts of conditions. The perfect tent (or indeed anything) as a thought-experiment is much, much easier than the real thing, I suspect!

Pete.

Like I said...

[donnieban]

When the first Luxe tents were introduced into the UK Michael Wong had never heard of a Scottish midge. However once he was made aware of them he set about designing and making inner tents of finer mesh that will keep them at bay. I believe all the new models now have midge proof no see um mesh.

http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/bushcraft/WF101.html

Are you sure? I raised this recently with Bob in the context of the Mini Peak 2 and was told that its still a mosquito mesh nest/ inner and not a midge proof mesh.

Please note our Scots customers have told us the inner mesh is Midge proof, but as yet we can't confirm that ourselves. Buyer beware.
Looks a great tent, but not apparently suited to camping where highland midges can be expected.

Perhaps DaleFTW could kindly confirm?

db