Cycling Fine in Royal Park

[Nilsjelkeby]

Hello,

I recently received a £60 fine when cycling in Greenwich Royal Park. I had no idea that there were certain rules when it came to cycling in Royal Parks. I have only spent 6 weeks in England and I was given little chance to argue that I had not seen any signs and was completely unaware. The Police officers were not interested. I went back to the park 3 days later and retraced by journey. There was no sign at all. I am now coming up to the point where I have to either pay or take this to court. I was wondering if anybody here knows whether there is any point of requesting a court hearing? I am not especially keen on paying the fine, especially considering that there was little or no way of me knowing that what I was doing was illegal.

Thank you,

Nils

[AndyBSG]

What is the offence you've been charged with? Is it possible to scan in and upload a picture of the fine?

My gut feeling is that if there isn't any signage anywhere on the route you took then it should be quite easy to get it overturned on appeal.

[mjr]

If you can, photograph and video the entire route now, before they put signs up.

I'd expect this could be overturned upon appeal, but like the other reply: it depends on the details.

[tatanab]

"Cycling is allowed on ALL roads AND some specially designated cycle routes within the Parks - the only exception is Primrose Hill." http://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/kens ... oyal-parks

As said - we need to know the details of the offence.

[BeeKeeper]

You could send an e-mail to: cycle@royalparks.gsi.gov.uk
Or if you are still in London knock on this door: The Royal Parks, The Old Police House, Hyde Park, London W2 2UH
In either case explain that as foreign visitor to London you were unaware of their rules, which are not well displayed.
Worth a try.

[Mark1978]

Perhaps the argument is that if it isn't designated as a bridleway or other cycle route then it's not permitted by definition?

[boliston]

im sure that would only be a civil matter of trespass not a police matter

[Nilsjelkeby]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies.

I am not able to upload a photo at the moment but the offense is “unauthorized cycling in a royal park” contrary to the “park regulations 1997”

[Nilsjelkeby]

Here is the cycling policy according to the royal parks.

http://www.royalparks.org.uk/__document ... y_2008.pdf

[iviehoff]

I was wondering if anybody here knows whether there is any point of requesting a court hearing? I am not especially keen on paying the fine, especially considering that there was little or no way of me knowing that what I was doing was illegal.

You haven't seen signs saying "No causing death by dangerous driving", and there are are very few signs telling you to drive on the left, but it wouldn't be much of a defence against those offences to say you had seen no prohibition posted.

In general in England and Wales if you see a footpath you can't cycle on it unless there is a sign explicitly permitting you to do so. (In Scotland its the other way around, you can cycle on it unless you are banned.) So that is why there is no sign saying you can't, and no sympathy shown. Unfortunately for you, you did it in a Royal Park where the fixed penalty is double what it would be anywhere else. And where there are plenty of people enforcing it.

You have no chance. Your cheapest option is to pay. If you don't, or try to contest it and lose, which you will, the fine goes up. There is a discussion of the situation by a lawyer here: http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/07/27/cycl ... don-parks/

[Adam S]

I was wondering if anybody here knows whether there is any point of requesting a court hearing? I am not especially keen on paying the fine, especially considering that there was little or no way of me knowing that what I was doing was illegal.

In general in England and Wales if you see a footpath you can't cycle on it unless there is a sign explicitly permitting you to do so. (In Scotland its the other way around, you can cycle on it unless you are banned.) So that is why there is no sign saying you can't, and no sympathy shown. Unfortunately for you, you did it in a Royal Park where the fixed penalty is double what it would be anywhere else. And where there are plenty of people enforcing it.

No, it's the Royal Parks that are unusual in this respect, so I would have expected signs to tell me I was prohibited (by law) from cycling in the park. In E&W there's no RIGHT for cyclists to ride on footpaths, but they may be permitted to use them or acquire that right eg. through long use. The important point is that it is not an offence to cycle on a footpath, you cannot be prosecuted (issued with a fine etc.)for that. The common exception is where a Traffic Regulation Order is made to prohibit cycling, thus making it an offence. In that case the footpath would have to be signed with 'No Cycling' (or 'No Vehicle' as appropriate) 'red circle' signs.

This does make the specific law: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1639/made seem rather unfair as it just prohibits cycling anywhere it isn't specifically permitted. I guess this changes the burden to providing signage where cycling IS permitted.

I'm sorry that this has happened to you soon after coming to the country. Maybe they may be lenient if you bring this and the lack of signage to their attention

[AndyBSG]

I was wondering if anybody here knows whether there is any point of requesting a court hearing? I am not especially keen on paying the fine, especially considering that there was little or no way of me knowing that what I was doing was illegal.

You haven't seen signs saying "No causing death by dangerous driving", and there are are very few signs telling you to drive on the left, but it wouldn't be much of a defence against those offences to say you had seen no prohibition posted.

Maybe but there are strict laws on providing adequate signage of driving offences which carry a fixed penalty fine.

For instance, I have had a fixed penalty speed camera fine overturned on the basis that the reduced speed limit sign was further than a certain distance from the camera.

Surely there must be comparable rules on providing signs regarding cycling?

[iviehoff]

In E&W there's no RIGHT for cyclists to ride on footpaths, but they may be permitted to use them or acquire that right eg. through long use. The important point is that it is not an offence to cycle on a footpath, you cannot be prosecuted (issued with a fine etc.)for that. The common exception is where a Traffic Regulation Order is made to prohibit cycling, thus making it an offence. In that case the footpath would have to be signed with 'No Cycling' (or 'No Vehicle' as appropriate) 'red circle' signs.

You are talking about the specific case of footpaths across private land which are rights of way. I'm talking about footpaths more generally, like footways alongside roads, and footpaths across parks, sports venues, shopping centres, etc which are not dedicated as rights of way. You can certainly get fixed penalty notices for cycling on a footway alongside the road without any TRO or signs banning you from doing so. You would in general expect cycling not to be allowed in the other non-RoW cases I mention in E&W: whilst No Cycling signs are common in such cases, they are far from universal. As the legal article I linked to points out, the Royal Parks do have their own regime, but it is far from unexpected in this country that you can't cycle on the kinds of non-RoW footpath I mention, sign or no sigh, in England and Wales. Cycling on a RoW footpath with no TRO is a grey area, it seems to be neither allowed nor banned, and whilst you wouldn't expect to get a FPN for it, you would unsurprised to be approached by the landowner asking you to dismount: I have certainly been so approached.

[TonyR]

I'll check later but I am pretty sure the law on Royal Parks requires that the rules are displayed at the entry to the Park. So its around the entry gates, not on the path you were on, that you would need to look for signage.

[Adam S]

No I meant any footpath, though not really pavements attached to a road, which are obviously different. There are various other very specialised exceptions eg.railways, MOD property, dockyards... and you'd struggle to cycle on those by accident. In general it is not an offence to cycle along any path (regardless of whether there is a right of way on foot) and in order to prohibit cycling a TRO or byelaw is required accompanied by the correct signage - for the order to be enforceable these must be present. Of course trespass is a separate issue but is civil rather than criminal matter so not really relevant to the offence.

The OP could cycle into parks anywhere else in the country confident in the knowledge that it wasn't an offence to do so unless there were signs to make it clear. Again, I wouldn't want to advocate antisocial cycling or ignoring of informal 'no cycling' signs but I think it's unreasonable for someone to expect to be prosecuted for entering a public park on a bicycle unless there is something to tell them otherwise. This is particularly the case here where there was not only an absence of official 'red circle' signs but also any other form of informal sign.

More than anything else, it would surely help them stop cyclists if they actually told cyclists not to cycle in the park rather than catching one or two every so often who aren't aware of the rules.