Cycling UK Forum

Would it not be possible for the LBS's to form themselves into some sort of buying group to put pressure on the wholesaler to bring prices down? I remember years ago something like this happened with the domestic electrical independents. I don't think they could match the big chains but got close enough for me to buy from them and get the service from a small retailer.
Until something like this happens I think the LBS will always struggle as people (in the main) are on much tighter budgets than they were and are looking for the best price.

pete75 wrote:

531colin wrote:

mjr wrote:........... wholesalers are shafting them, they should find better sources...

Theres only one wholesaler for Shimano in the UK

So? They could source parts from elsewhere in the EU.

That might work, depending if a wholesaler was prepared to supply somebody outside their area.
You see, the general public have the trades descriptions legislation to protect them from the evil retailer.
The retailer doesn't have time to fight with the evil wholesaler, and has no legislation to support him.
.....it all works with reference to who has the biggest stick.....
the UK is a relatively small market, if for example the German wholesaler agreed to supply a UK bike shop, the UK wholesaler is liable to complain to the manufacturer......theres a fair chance the manufacturer would side with the bigger account.

531colin wrote:

pete75 wrote:

531colin wrote:
Theres only one wholesaler for Shimano in the UK

So? They could source parts from elsewhere in the EU.

That might work, depending if a wholesaler was prepared to supply somebody outside their area.
You see, the general public have the trades descriptions legislation to protect them from the evil retailer.
The retailer doesn't have time to fight with the evil wholesaler, and has no legislation to support him.
.....it all works with reference to who has the biggest stick.....
the UK is a relatively small market, if for example the German wholesaler agreed to supply a UK bike shop, the UK wholesaler is liable to complain to the manufacturer......theres a fair chance the manufacturer would side with the bigger account.

EU single market and restraint of trade legislation makes this illegal for a manufacturer to stop one of it's agents in one country from supplying goods to any other EU country. The whole thing was fought out in the courts years ago over car sales within the EU - in the days when car prices in other EU countries were much lower than the UK. Companies of the stature of VW were heavily fined so Shimano wouldn't stand much of a chance.

That's interesting, Pete, and stuff I didn't know.
Does it apply equally to a wholesaler selling trade? I remember individual UK residents used to buy cars abroad.
The fact remains that it doesn't matter much what the legislation says, a man in business on his own doesn't have either the time or the money to fight the big corporations through the courts.......and if you can't get essential supplies for say 2 weeks, your business goes bust, which is a bit of a risk.
I wonder how and where Decathlon buy their stuff? I know their stores could only order stuff that was held on a central list.

pete75 wrote:
EU single market and restraint of trade legislation makes this illegal for a manufacturer to stop one of it's agents in one country from supplying goods to any other EU country. The whole thing was fought out in the courts years ago over car sales within the EU - in the days when car prices in other EU countries were much lower than the UK. Companies of the stature of VW were heavily fined so Shimano wouldn't stand much of a chance.

Well there's the regulations and there's the real world. It just takes a rep to mention that they'd rather you didn't do something and in the same conversation just happen to mention they're reviewing pricing or stock levels...

jb wrote:...............
In a big faceless conglomerate your insulated from all that and just get the big smiley customer interface..............

..............and a bike that doesn't fit you.

I'm with "jb" - "I’d rather hear the internals grumbling personally".

PH wrote:

pete75 wrote:
EU single market and restraint of trade legislation makes this illegal for a manufacturer to stop one of it's agents in one country from supplying goods to any other EU country. The whole thing was fought out in the courts years ago over car sales within the EU - in the days when car prices in other EU countries were much lower than the UK. Companies of the stature of VW were heavily fined so Shimano wouldn't stand much of a chance.

Well there's the regulations and there's the real world. It just takes a rep to mention that they'd rather you didn't do something and in the same conversation just happen to mention they're reviewing pricing or stock levels...

VW were fined fined 90 million euros on one occasion , 30 million on another for breaching single market regulations - I think that's more real world than the scenario you mention.

I don't think the VW situation is quite the same. As I understand it they were fined for trying to stop consumers importing cars from other countries where they were cheaper (i.e you or I buying from Rose). Exclusive distribution is often legal, and is widespread. Madison are exclusive distributor for Shimano in the UK and so i dont think it is open to retailers to approach, say, the Italian distributor for stock.

Cheers

531colin wrote:That's interesting, Pete, and stuff I didn't know.
Does it apply equally to a wholesaler selling trade? I remember individual UK residents used to buy cars abroad.
The fact remains that it doesn't matter much what the legislation says, a man in business on his own doesn't have either the time or the money to fight the big corporations through the courts.......and if you can't get essential supplies for say 2 weeks, your business goes bust, which is a bit of a risk.
I wonder how and where Decathlon buy their stuff? I know their stores could only order stuff that was held on a central list.

A couple of years ago I was speaking to the ski guy in the Decathlon at Eastwood. Some new Salomon ski boots had come out and most retailers here were doing them for £189. He said Salomon weren't happy about Decathlon selling them at £129 and even less happy when they promoted them at £89. Salomons only weapon would be to stop supplying Decathlon - commercial suicide for any French ski kit manufacturer. I guess Decathlon are big enough not to be pushed about by their suppliers.
At the end of the ski season you can often pick up boots, skis and poles for a similar price to a weeks hire in the resort.

Another advantage they have is they cover most sports so there's always something in season, selling well and bringing folk into the shop. Unlike many British "sports" chains their business model isn't based on selling lots of replica football kit.
Their own brand products are usually well designed, well made and honestly priced.

Decathlon obviously avoid the problem prevalent in Britain of items passing through one or more pairs of profit taking but nil value adding hands before they reach the customer. Shimano don't have middlemen in France but sell through a subsidiary Shimano-France. It's a fair bet Decathlon are their biggest customer.

Yup, Decathlon probably carry a fairly big stick.....

Steveo2020 wrote:I don't think the VW situation is quite the same. As I understand it they were fined for trying to stop consumers importing cars from other countries where they were cheaper (i.e you or I buying from Rose). Exclusive distribution is often legal, and is widespread. Madison are exclusive distributor for Shimano in the UK and so i dont think it is open to retailers to approach, say, the Italian distributor for stock.

Cheers

If what is happening with Madison isn't illegal then it's fairly close to the wire - particularly given Shimanos dominant market position.

2 Abuse of Dominant Market Position
A dominant position in a market essentially means that a business is generally able to behave independently of competitive pressures, such as other competitors, in that market.

Conduct which may be considered an abuse by a business in a dominant position includes:
• charging excessively high prices;
• limiting production;
• refusing to supply an existing long standing customer without good reason;
• charging different prices to different customers where there is no difference in what is being supplied; or
• making a contract conditional on factors that have nothing to do with the subject of the contract.

" charging different prices to different customers where there is no difference in what is being supplied" - Is that why the big boys get OEM packaged stuff - packaging makes the difference?

http://www.crippslink.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=537

531colin wrote:Yup, Decathlon probably carry a fairly big stick.....

Or maybe a giant ski pole

The point Is that up thread you said an LBS could source wholesale goods from elsewhere in the EU - I don't think they can.

Cheers

Steve

Steveo2020 wrote:The point Is that up thread you said an LBS could source wholesale goods from elsewhere in the EU - I don't think they can.

Cheers

Steve

What is there to prevent them from so doing? - for example the German shimano distributer claims to deal with Europe on their website.