Cycling UK Forum

But a yellow hi-viz with silver reflective bands could be mistaken for a police jacket, so where do you draw the line? I have a Polaris RBS jacket that's yellow and orange and makes me look like a member of the emergency services. I've seen kids on BMX's stop what they were doing as I ride past, thinking I'm a copper! (even though I'm on a dropped handlebar bike).

My take on all this is that we have an ingrained response to recognizing the emergency services, largely because those services have done their best to be obvious and distinctive. By deliberately emulating that look, we dilute how effective that recognition is. I don't believe that's beneficial for society, though I can see how it might be desirable for the individual.

On another subject...

Brucey wrote:BTW in case anyone is wondering, I'd also ban certain cars from sale because their control interfaces are too complicated and are still active when the car is in motion (there is no need for either) and I would also ban any mobile phone use in cars too, hands free or not.

Call me a big girl's blouse, but I'd really hate to ride in a car where the control interfaces (especially the brakes) we inactive once the car was in motion.

Adam S wrote:............................I repeat my earlier point that we'd be the first to complain if motorists started zooming around in not-quite police cars

You mean like Highways Agency or Motorway Maintenenace vehicles? No-ones complained yet as far as I know.

The other point about impersonation is arguable and probably needs to go to a court fr a definitive answer. The telling thing for me is that the "Polite" bit only needs a second glance to see that it isn't what you may have mistaken it for so it's hard to argue that there's any deceit involved - it bears no scrutiny. I also think the use is relevant too, if you stood by the side of the road flagging motorists down then there would be a case, if you're just going about your normal business without interfering with others then where's the attempt to impersonate?

I searched the web and didn't find a jacket with a reflective bike. I'd quite like to see one. I did find a "polite overjacket" and "polite hat band" in the Raleigh catalogue, though!

Never managed to mistake those others for police vehicles. I agree the point is arguable, but that's also why I wouldn't advise somebody to get one. I would suggest that the difference with these compared to anything else that may be mistaken at a distance is that these are intended to mislead and give the appearance of a police officer (otherwise they serve no purpose). It would only take one unsympathetic real police officer or another road user's complaint about being stopped and remonstrated with by a cyclist "dressed like a police officer" to open this can of worms...

Apart from any legal aspect, we have to remember that the police wear easily identifiable attire so that they can be recognized as police and having other people similarly attired reduces this effect. Is that a POLITE cyclist or a POLICE cyclist you can see waving angrily in your rear view mirror? If we have got to the stage where we are unsafe to cycle unless dressed like police officers there's no hope for us...

I repeat my earlier point that we'd be the first to complain if motorists started zooming around in not-quite police cars

Certainly not, complain, I mean.

Firstly, for some reason I dont panic at the sight of the Police.
Secondly because I have done hundreds of thousands of miles on no-longer Police motorcycles with quite amusing results, I dont think that looking like a Police Officer is the same as impersonating one.
I didnt have the word Police on my motorcycles and it was fairly clear that I wasnt a Police Officer, if you gave it a second glance.

meic wrote: I dont think that looking like a Police Officer is the same as impersonating one.

Earlier I posted that one offence is where the result is "giving him an appearance so nearly resembling that of a member of a police force as to be calculated to deceive". The intended resemblance to a police officer is what makes these liable to accusations of impersonation. If that wasn't the intention, no effort would have been made to closely mirror the appearance and layout of police attire.

Brucey wrote:you will have noticed that 'safety cameras' are -in contrast to their original installations- now almost invariably well-signposted beforehand. My understanding is that this move was at least in part motivated by the observed increase in the accident rate at the points nearby where the cameras hove into view. These accidents were caused by people behaving in an erratic fashion when they saw the camera.

My understanding is that it was eventually realised that it was better to encourage people to comply with the law than to catch them when they don't, hence also speed cameras normally being highly visible in bright yellow livery, rather than being painted in camouflage colours and hidden behind bushes.

MartinC wrote:Somebody needs to help me out with the convoluted logic (and I use the term loosely) of this argument.

So, a hi vis vest that might be mistaken momentarily for a policeman is an unacceptable hazard that we can't expect motorists to cope with it and will cause mayhem. But real policeman and police vehicles aren't.

and

Lots of people routinely flout the law when they drive so the sight of any likely enforcemant is a hazard to them and we must deal with this by making sure that they're never confronted with it. Is this because the routine flouting is OK and needs no action 'cos the war on the motorist is over?

I think I've got it now but I have to try really hard or common sense takes over.

I'm with you Mr C

rfryer wrote:

Brucey wrote:BTW in case anyone is wondering, I'd also ban certain cars from sale because their control interfaces are too complicated and are still active when the car is in motion (there is no need for either) and I would also ban any mobile phone use in cars too, hands free or not.

Call me a big girl's blouse, but I'd really hate to ride in a car where the control interfaces (especially the brakes) we inactive once the car was in motion.

ah yes, well you know what I mean; having the driver fiddle about the the clock settings, the radio tuning, the traffic announcement settings, the sat-nav defaults, the graphic equaliser, the gazillion settings on the climate control, the interior light delay, the suspension settings etc etc etc is not necessary when in motion. Especially when it involves staring at a screen and selecting from the depths of twelve sub-menus in a non-tactile fashion.

My idea of a good car layout has a few large and tactile controls (that you can operate without looking at them) for the basic functions. By all means have a screen interface if you must but the menus should be viewable by a passenger only when the car is in motion.

cheers

But will it really work well if I have to pull over every time I want to adjust where the air-con is blowing? Won't some suffer an increasingly misted windscreen (or eye-watering blast at their face) rather than have to stop to adjust this and won't this potentially cause an even greater menace?


Better to teach people to use the interfaces carefully and safely surely (and only allow peope to drive motor vehicles if they have shown that they can do this and continue to do so)?

Air con, heater and vent direction/selection controls are usually tactile, buttons to push and so on. I can operate mine without looking at them. If your car doesn't have tactile controls, its maker should be encouraged to redesign them. I think Brucey was reserving his ire for the annoying menus on modern dashboard displays, stereos and sat-navs.

But never mind that: where can we get a Reflective jacket with a bike image?

mjr wrote: ... I think Brucey was reserving his ire for the annoying menus on modern dashboard displays, stereos and sat-navs.

too right.

The bloke with the brain cell was off the day they designed my car; there is no way you can have warm feet and a warm windscreen, the heater controls are NOT tactile in any way, and when you cycle through the heater settings (which is about once every minute on days where the windscreen mists up i.e. most winter days) the AC comes on automatically and then has to be cancelled.

But never mind that: where can we get a Reflective jacket with a bike image?

From Caleb, obviously. He's on the wrong continent, but hey...

cheers

I spent over 20 years as a Police Motorcyclist and I can tell you that I much preferred the ride to and from work on my own bike wearing my own dark leathers. On the work bike, dressed in all that bright stuff with 'Police' all over it made people do the most stupid things around me.

stevetyler wrote:I spent over 20 years as a Police Motorcyclist and I can tell you that I much preferred the ride to and from work on my own bike wearing my own dark leathers. On the work bike, dressed in all that bright stuff with 'Police' all over it made people do the most stupid things around me.

Well that settles that argument then.