Lots of people are saying that "Audax" bikes have narrow tyres, but that to me is a nonsense
There isnt an actual legal definition of an Audax bike. But to me a defining feature of a standard Audax bike is that it will have 57mm drop calipers allowing for up to 28mm tyres and mudguards. It isnt that we are limiting our imagination to that, so much as accepting the norm of what is called an Auidax bike. So we are merely going along with the prescriptions of those who design, manufacture and market "Audax" bikes.
Ain't that the truth,but sadly many people think they actually need to meet that criteria,to ride audax In the same way many people are fooled into thinking that high frequency vibration actually makes the bike faster,because it feels faster.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
samsbike wrote:Cheers for that Colin, how do you feel the difference between a stiffer and more compliant fork - is it vibration, chatter or just experience of what you like?
Careful definition of terms needed here! On that Ti bike with a Kinesis carbon disc fork, and 32mm marathon supremes at 60psi front, 70psi back (those are the pressures I use on tyres that size, at 11 stone ....rightly or wrongly!) its absolutely fine on tarmac. However, off-road I think I get more jarring through the bars on any disc fork I have ridden, compared to 631 forks. (which are quite light....no low-rider bosses) I will do a back to back comparison again, but the sort of stuff I'm talking about is hardpacked earth with lots of stones protruding maybe an inch above the earth..... my impression is that I need to take that sort of stuff a bit slower with the disc fork than with a 631 steel fork, on the same tyres, at the same pressures. Its fair to say that the stretch of local bridlepath that I will use as my test track is somewhere I look where I'm putting my feet, even when wearing walking boots. I suppose if you used a narrower tyre at higher pressure something might show up on tarmac
Thanks I lost this somewhere and Horizon hope you enjoy your new steed.
Other than than, I am awaiting this new Spa Ti and Steel disc to see what the fuss is about.
samsbike wrote: and Horizon hope you enjoy your new steed.
When I get it . . .
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
It is undoubtedly true that you can do an audax ride on any roadworthy bike that takes your fancy. I've seen short ones done on roadified mountain bikes. I've even seen one done on a Pashley! But for most of us an audax ride will be more enjoyable if the bike we are on is one that allows us to move with as much ease as we are physically capable of. Having no unnecessary mass on the bike is a help. You can argue that the extra mass of a heavy bike is only a disadvantage going uphill, but that is a large percentage of the ride. You could say that extra mass only holds you back for a short time when you accelerate away from a junction, but there are probably hundreds of small accelerations on an audax ride. It's not a race, of course, but having a lighter bike will make your journey feel better. But I'm sure you could arrive at a satisfactory audax bike using a slightly overweight touring frame as a starting point.
As someone who uses both 32 and 25mm tyres I have to point out that 25mm can be almost as comfortable to ride as 32mm if you don't pump them up too hard, and if you choose a particularly compliant tyre that deforms around small objects. And both those tyre sizes can shake your fillings loose if you put too much air in. So whilst I agree that road brakes (even 57mm) are a bit limiting, you can still just about get a smooth ride with enough clearance for all but the muddiest lanes.
Audax rides have been done on Moultons, Bromptons, 1920s bikes which make you pedal backwards for low gear, even skateboards. I've never seen or heard of anyone using an ordinary but I'd be mildly surprised if it's never happened. I've personally used a non-roadified MTB with front low riders and a single rear pannier (but I did lock the fork out), and a hybrid on which the telefork could not be locked. That doesn't make any of them "audax bikes". Most people I know who are really serious about audax use different bikes for different rides.
pwa wrote:As someone who uses both 32 and 25mm tyres I have to point out that 25mm can be almost as comfortable to ride as 32mm if you don't pump them up too hard, and if you choose a particularly compliant tyre that deforms around small objects.
Sorry to repeatedly beat the same drum, but rider weight is pretty critical here. For me to run 25mm tyres at a pressure I'd find comfortable I think I'd be seriously into pinch flat territory. I can just about get away with 28s if they are genuinely that size, but I wouldn't consider buying another bike with that restriction.
I have a very nice thorn audax, with 28mm tyres, and dynamo etc. I've had this bike for a few years, and I love it. If I had my money from the start again though it would not be the bike I would buy now. I want the same bike, just with larger clearances for bigger tyres, and probably discs. If I had my money again now I'd probably buy something like the Sabbath September AR1 and build it up from the frame.
honesty wrote:.......... I want the same bike, just with larger clearances for bigger tyres..........
^^^^^THIS...This is why its lunacy to use a FAULT of road STIs and dual pivot sidepulls to define an "audax" bike......Poor clearance is a FAULT........unless somebody can demonstrate that its a benefit.....and that is a challenge. Why not have a bike where you can fit 35mm tyres if you want to?....you don't have to, you can use 23s in a bike with room for 35s.....but you can't do it the other way round!
honesty wrote:.......... I want the same bike, just with larger clearances for bigger tyres..........
^^^^^THIS...This is why its lunacy to use a FAULT of road STIs and dual pivot sidepulls to define an "audax" bike......Poor clearance is a FAULT........unless somebody can demonstrate that its a benefit.....and that is a challenge. Why not have a bike where you can fit 35mm tyres if you want to?....you don't have to, you can use 23s in a bike with room for 35s.....but you can't do it the other way round!
This is where discs win 8 my opinion. They still allow the use of STI's (which I like) and can have more clearance without having to fiddle with 3rd party fixes.
honesty wrote:.......... I want the same bike, just with larger clearances for bigger tyres..........
^^^^^THIS...This is why its lunacy to use a FAULT of road STIs and dual pivot sidepulls to define an "audax" bike......Poor clearance is a FAULT........unless somebody can demonstrate that its a benefit.....and that is a challenge. Why not have a bike where you can fit 35mm tyres if you want to?....you don't have to, you can use 23s in a bike with room for 35s.....but you can't do it the other way round!
This is where discs win 8 my opinion. They still allow the use of STI's (which I like) and can have more clearance without having to fiddle with 3rd party fixes.
So there are three of us here who would choose to have a bike with a bit more flexibility in its tyre range and would happily ride it on an Audax instead of a standard Audax bike. I would call that an Audax+ bike.
However if I was picking a bike just for Audax use mine would have 57mm dual pivots and 28mm would be the largest I wanted to fit it with. If I had a Spa Audax and a Spa Tourer, it would be the Audax that I chose to ride an Audax on. Like most (not all) Audaxers 28mm is as big as we choose to go and dual pivot calipers are nice, simple, aerodynamic, effective and friendly to light fittings and STIs. There is a demand for an Audax+ bike but for an Audax ride the type of bike which is commonly called an Audax bike is pretty much popularly accepted as ideal for the job. My Audax+ bike is good enough for Audaxing and almost as good as an Audax bike on an Audax and probably much better for what Horizon wants.
My bike can run a disk brake on the rear but I wouldnt want the extra weight on the bike, on an Audax, unless it was really grubby weather.
