Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
snibgo
Posts: 4604
Joined: 29 Jun 2010, 4:45am

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by snibgo »

dazza500 wrote:I'm trying to follow a 1600kcal per day controlled diet but I need to find out pretty accurately how many extra cals I'm burning on the bike.

A useful guide to different terrain and levels of work would be a good start.

I haven't investigated recently, but there are plenty of on-line calculators that can tell you how much energy is needed to ride a certain distance at a certain speed up a certain hill. Perhaps bikeroutetoaster or something can combine the calculation with a certain route defined on a map.

This tells you how much physical energy is needed, in units of Joules or kcal. You might then reckon that your body is 25% efficient at converting food to energy, so multiply by 4 to find the amount of food energy that would be needed.

But beware of this "multiply by 4" as that might already be done by the calculator.

The energy per hour depends heavily on air resistance (hence on speed) and hills, and a decent hill will clobber energy. My normal riding is on the flat so I can take it as easily as I want, expending almost no energy. If I wanted to deliberately burn energy, I would use the hills.
User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 12617
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Mick F wrote:Just coz I use 750cals per hour and 70cals per mile cannot be "the rule" for all cyclists everywhere. You need to take into account terrain and average speed. The more hills you ride and the harder you ride, the more energy you will require.


http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/11/how- ... 696816%2F1
Taken from above -

"5) Speed/Distance Algorithm: This is the most basic method of determining calories, as it is only used when a heart rate strap is not enabled/used (default). Given the lack of heart rate data, the unit will simply use speed/distance, as well as the weight you entered in the device setup. The reason this is less accurate (65-80% accurate) is that it can’t differentiate how much effort you’re expending to travel a given distance – which while less important for running, is quite important for cycling. For example, if you’re coasting down a 7 mile descent, you’ll burn virtually no calories compared to ascending the same mountain. This speed/distance algorithm does not consider or evaluate the impact of elevation change – primarily due to concerns the team had about relying on GPS-based elevation to determine calories. They also reasoned that while the Edge units had barometric altimeters, it was better to focus on heart-rate based calorie burn, as opposed to simply expanding the ‘guesstimate’ that the speed/distance algorithm is. Finally, note that if you wear a heart-rate monitor/strap – speed/distance are ignored, and instead one of the other above (more accurate) methods are used."

Remember you need 80 - 100 kcals to exist, so this would consumed sitting in your armchair.
Only measuring VO2 max (oxygen used) is accurate on kcals burned (amongst others) and you would need a power meter to measure work done.
Are you using your heart rate strap Mick F :?:
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
AndyB
Posts: 921
Joined: 21 Feb 2007, 12:24pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by AndyB »

My Garmin wildly overestimates the number of calories used if I don't use the heart rate strap:

Ride 1 - 22.6km with 431m climbing in 44:59 (30.2kph), with HRM - 423kCal
Ride 2 - 21.9km with 424m climbing in 43:25 (30.3kph), no HRM - 881kCal

The former is far more realistic. I reckon on about 100kCal for every 10 minutes of hard exercise, but I guess that would be bigger for someone heavier (I'm 62kg).
dazza500
Posts: 168
Joined: 1 Oct 2013, 3:17pm

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by dazza500 »

I'm thinking about 450-500 cald per hour is probably more realistic as I ride quite a hilly route.

I'm starting to think shorter more intense work outs might be better. Have seen a few US based websites who
advocate 30-40mon sessions at 75-80% workout for maximum fat burning efficiency

I'm 79kg and I haven't lost a gram since August!
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 51433
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by Mick F »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Are you using your heart rate strap Mick F :?:
I was, but no longer.

My figures came for years and years and years worth of data from HR, terrain, speed, my weight, weight of bike, my age and sex. I can analyse every single pedal stroke, every single heart-beat, and every single yard of over 24,000miles, and I still have all the records.

I'm free from all that now. My Garmin Edge 705 and all the kit has been sold.

Back to diet .............
I eat well.
Breakfast this morning for instance:
Fried left-over mashed spuds
Fried streaky bacon
Fried egg
Half a tin of Beanz
Two rounds of brown bread and REAL butter.

Lunch:
Boil-in-the-bag supermarket kippers
Three rounds of brown toast with real butter
Large piece of cake.

Dunno what we're having for tea this evening, but it will be after scuppering three or four pints of beer down the pub.

I have no problems with weight. 12st 3lbs.
I rode out this morning and did 21miles with 3,300ft of total ascent. That's 157ft per mile.
Cals consumed 1,004kcals No doubt I've more than replaced that from what I've eaten today!

Screen shot 2013-11-29 at 13.13.08.png
Mick F. Cornwall
flat tyre
Posts: 543
Joined: 18 Jul 2008, 1:01pm

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by flat tyre »

I ususally go out for a 2+ hour ride or so Saturdays and Sundays. I vary the route as I live in south downs country and I have the choice of hilly versus gently undulating. I have a feeling (not necessarily backed up by fact or Garmin readings) that 2 hours cycling on a flattish route uses more calories than 2 hours cycling through the hills, the reason being that on a flattish ride I'm pedalling all the time, whereas on a hily ride I tend to rest going down hills.
bates51
Posts: 59
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 7:37am

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by bates51 »

Spot on! Real butter is where its at! All this so called diet food is just a load of codswallop. I lived in france for two years and you have to look very hard to find a fattie ;) Its all down to eating good whole food at regular intervals and no snacking on rubbish.

Plus a healthy dose of exercise!
bates51
Posts: 59
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 7:37am

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by bates51 »

Of course the above is all easier done than said ;)
Merry_Wanderer
Posts: 1002
Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 9:33am
Location: North Leicestershire

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by Merry_Wanderer »

I'm no expert, but would the body go into starvation mode if you try and limit calorie intake too low?

I'm 6 ft 3 and 14 stone 6. When I eat my normal food intake (my estimate for me is 2,200 cals per day) my weight is stable. When I commute to work on a laden 6 speed Brompton for 45 minutes (8 miles) in the morning plus 5.5 miles (30 mins) in the evening I can add a double snickers bar to my diet, plus 4 plain digestive biscuits and my weight is stable. My estimate of the added calories is 500 calories for the choc bar plus 4 x75 cals for the biscuits = 800 calories total. When I give the sweet stuff a miss I lose weight.

The biking on each commute is 1 hr 15 mins and that suggests a calorie burn of 59 calories per mile (640 cals per hour).

What does this prove? Err, dunno! :-D
User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 12617
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
dazza500 wrote:I'm thinking about 450-500 cald per hour is probably more realistic as I ride quite a hilly route.

I'm starting to think shorter more intense work outs might be better. Have seen a few US based websites who
advocate 30-40mon sessions at 75-80% workout for maximum fat burning efficiency

I'm 79kg and I haven't lost a gram since August!

Forget the cals and eat less. I am the same weight as Mick F, 78 kgs.
Look at Mick F he's happy and stable, its the rest of us who dont get our daily 1/2 gallon of ale every night :(
But dont ever give up the day job Mick F :)

I lost weight by cutting OUT the things we all luv to eat.
Chocs - beer - butter - biscuits - high fat meals, that will reduce your energy intake sustantially.
I fall of the wagon every day but keep in moderation,

You are probably underestimating the value amount of the food you eat :?:

I would be very motivated to do Mick F's training If I could afford all that ale and bacon :D
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
dazza500
Posts: 168
Joined: 1 Oct 2013, 3:17pm

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by dazza500 »

I've been to see a sports nutritionust this summer and basically she said the problem might be inefficient insulin regulation, which was a worry because that is usually a precursor to type 2diabetes which is common in my family

I was a bit worried and went to doctor who did indeed confirm my blood sugar was high and high agsin on a return visit. I've since altered my diet to eat more whole food and it has come back to busy the high side of normal. But I probably have to lose about 5kg (according to my doctor) to be better able to regulate my blood sugars.

All of this is a bit of hard work! I'm currently on about 1600-1800 cals a day which even without exercise I should be losing 1.5lbs a week. But nothing! Nada. And I'm probably putting at least a 150 miles a week.

The nutritionist says I might have 'plateaud' but that sounds like a load of old cobblers to me!
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 51433
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by Mick F »

Mrs Mick F's aunty was a PT instructor and specialised in trampoline.
She was a big lady! Fit as a fit thing, but rather wide across the beam (so to speak).
Weight and size isn't always an indicator of being unfit. Rugby players are often clinically obese, but try telling them that they have to go on a diet! :lol:

I will always maintain that if you are fit and strong, you'll be fine. Exercise and a happy healthy lifestyle is all that counts. Don't get hung up on weight and body image.
Mick F. Cornwall
User avatar
Tigerbiten
Posts: 2176
Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 6:49am

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by Tigerbiten »

When I'm on a long tour, I'll cycle 5-7 hours a day 5-6 days a week.
I tend to be on the road for around 17 weeks.
In that time I'll eat around 3,000 calories a day.
This tour my weight dropped from ~88 kg to ~75 kg.
When I'm on tour I wouldn't call what I eat a balanced diet.
Cheese and ham sandwiches for breakfast and lunch, pasta and bits for dinner, choccy biscuits/ fig rolls as needed. I also take a daily multivit table just in case I'm missing something.
But it works for me as energy almost equals energy out ......... :D
User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 12617
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
dazza500 wrote:The nutritionist says I might have 'plateaud' but that sounds like a load of old cobblers to me!

I think thats you now have to "try harder" we all hit that and then its think again, I am in the bottomed out phase, been careful for two years, need to shift the last two or three kgs :( , only you know whats comfortable for you, we dont all have that medical condition hanging over us so I sympathise.
Are you calculating your own kcal intake :?:
That 1600 - 1800 sounds wasting to me for a guy ? / gal (1500) .
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
dazza500
Posts: 168
Joined: 1 Oct 2013, 3:17pm

Re: Roads, terrain, gearing best for burning calories.

Post by dazza500 »

I'm only dieting for an eight week block and aiming to be in energy deficit of around 8000 cals a week.
This 'should' deliver about 2lbs of weight loss a week, probably slowing down towards the end.

I'm kind of sceptical it will work but I'm going to give it a crack ;)

One got a relatively hilly circuit of 9 miles mapped out and I'll be aiming for four laps in about 2.5hrs.

Most of the literature I've read has said that a rolling circuit with a few big hills will burn 40% more calories than flat I

I don't have any alternative but to lose weight, as I don't want to be in the seec saw of tipping over into type 2 diabetes any longer ; (
Post Reply