Police Thugs

[[XAP]Bob]

It's occurred to me that it may appear I'm using the analogy to justify stopping cyclists to tell them they should be wearing helmets etc. I'm just making the point that it's possible that the police may be stopping you for a very sound reason which it's worth waiting to hear.

It's also a very real possibility that the police are stopping you other than for the purpose of making a load of noise to somehow tick their boxes of victim blaming and in actual fact the stop in a very high% of cases actually serves no useful purpose whatsoever, frustrates the person (cyclists in this instance) and in fewer cases actually cause that person harm or endanger them...just sayin' for balance and all that..

In which case wait with them, you should only need to check then next 1 HGV (was it 60 offences in 40 vehicles?) before asking why they are letting a non road worthy vehicle continue.

[fluffybunnyuk]

it might be uiseful to know if the reason for stopping you was that the big bad wolf was in the area, with a well-known appetite for fluffy bunnies when there were no little pigs at large.

You can huff and you can puff but your HGV will never blow my bike over thirdcrank...
find some little pigs on mountain bikes...

[pete75]

It's difficult to draw the line and it's supposed to be a free country. Nearly fort years ago, as a young(ish) sergeant, I tried to organise a cordon around a suspect package, at a distance advised by one of the military personnel dealing with it. "If you can see it, your in the danger zone" were his words. Even with an Army Landrover clearlhy marked bomb disposal, with beacons flashing etc, some people wanted to argue the toss about their right to ignore police instructions - and this wasn't just after the pubs had turned out.

In the twilight of my career, as an old(ish) inspector, a colleague queried why I took the loud hailer to a simiular incident. "So I can stand at a safe distance to say 'Come and stand behind me where it's safe.'"

Is it an offence to ignore police instructions - do they have the legal right to order us about when we're not committing or suspected of committing a crime? If people want to take the risk of passing near a "suspect" package then isn't that up to them?
As an aside when did we stop having a civil police force meaning civil as opposed to military?

[thirdcrank]

... Is it an offence to ignore police instructions - do they have the legal right to order us about when we're not committing or suspected of committing a crime? If people want to take the risk of passing near a "suspect" package then isn't that up to them?
As an aside when did we stop having a civil police force meaning civil as opposed to military?

As I began the bit you quoted, it's difficult to draw the line. It's only possible to do your best, in the certain knowledge that no matter what the outcome, there'll be somebody who's dissatisfied.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Although I can't find his post, TonyR gave that explanation a while ago. I think that I'd be a bit more careful over (c) eg, it might be uiseful to know if the reason for stopping you was that the big bad wolf was in the area, with a well-known appetite for fluffy bunnies when there were no little pigs at large.
===============================================================
Edit:
It's occurred to me that it may appear I'm using the analogy to justify stopping cyclists to tell them they should be wearing helmets etc. I'm just making the point that it's possible that the police may be stopping you for a very sound reason which it's worth waiting to hear.

While we respect your previous experience, I do too.
We know what you are saying, but When I have been stopped in the past it was for a reason so OK, but in the same way when you challenge someone (not using my size 14 boots methods here ) after then point their car at you, its always a barage of abuse, in the same way if you have determined that the police have stopped you for nothing and you then adopt (c) and in their frustration of you walking away they say "Dont Walk Away " you still catch it in the neck
Me like alot of even younger people are loosing confidence in the police actually doing their job correctly when there is simply no reason to stop you, and we know, Well I do from bitter experience that they are simply reluctant, and tell you too, that I do not want to pursue this through the Judicial system I do really but they say no.
Then I have to make a complaint and that probably cost 2K

If only the interviewing was carried out by proffesional people persons then the real crimes and evidence would be concise plain and fair.

Modern Police seem to be getting more PC at simply applying a mantra which is preached to them by their superiors, that just tick this box and I wont get a grilling from my boss and I wont grill you on numbers.

In my second to last run in with a PC he simply denied Knowing my abuser ( well he would would'nt he ) then they promoted him.............to Sergent

To anyone reading this post "third crank" will correct me for sure, it might be worth remembering that it is your choice wether you use Local or Non Local ? Non local means external police force, in dealing with your official complaint.
With local the PC can simply chose not to comment

[irc]

[Is it an offence to ignore police instructions - do they have the legal right to order us about when we're not committing or suspected of committing a crime? If people want to take the risk of passing near a "suspect" package then isn't that up to them?

I'd suggest it's the offence of obstructing police in the execution of their duty to ignore a cordon and pass near a suspect package. The police have a duty to protect life. Someone passing through a potential crime scene can also destroy evidence.

A cop direction traffic has the power to require pedestrians to stop. RTA 1988 S37

RTA 1988 S163 the power for a cop in uniform to stop drivers or cyclists on a road without any suspicion of any offence.

There are other powers as well but those 3 should cover most stops.

[pete75]

[Is it an offence to ignore police instructions - do they have the legal right to order us about when we're not committing or suspected of committing a crime? If people want to take the risk of passing near a "suspect" package then isn't that up to them?

I'd suggest it's the offence of obstructing police in the execution of their duty to ignore a cordon and pass near a suspect package. The police have a duty to protect life. Someone passing through a potential crime scene can also destroy evidence.

A cop direction traffic has the power to require pedestrians to stop. RTA 1988 S37

RTA 1988 S163 the power for a cop in uniform to stop drivers or cyclists on a road without any suspicion of any offence.

There are other powers as well but those 3 should cover most stops.

Hmmm sounds like we do live in a police state then if they can order us about when we're doing nowt wrong other than ignoring their orders - ah well....

[thirdcrank]

Pete75

Going back to my post about bomb disposal, I'd assume that it was obvious to anybody who was prepared to think things through for even a moment, that there are more reasons to keep people away from a suspected parcel bomb than the important matter of protecting the public. Another that's obvious to me is the need for the military personnel dealing with something like this at considerable personal risk to be able to concentrate 100% on the job in hand, without having to watch their backs, either for somebody showing off being a pain or, in a rare but possible case, somebody involved with the planting of a bomb interfering with the process of making it safe. In circumstances like this, the police do have to give instructions and fortunately most people accept that necessity. In general, the people who make the most noise are those least likely to do anything: IME, anybody intent on doing something keeps quiet and just gets on with it.

To the extent that we may be moving to a situation of increasing police powers to control society, eg PACE and its descendants, this has come about because when questions have been asked about the basis for the police doing this or that, politicians and lawyers have generally come up with another power to deal with it.

My fault for pulling this rabbit out of a hat so it could cause a distraction by running across the stage. My only point was in response to the bullet-point plan for responding to being stopped by the police.

[meic]

The Police ordered me to not use a stretch of pavement recently because of a suspected gas leak.
A couple of years ago they let me cross a bridge on my bike but later cyclists were refused because of a pile up leaking petrol and firemen still trying to cut the bodies out.

Not sure that constitutes a Police State.

[irc]

[Is it an offence to ignore police instructions - do they have the legal right to order us about when we're not committing or suspected of committing a crime? If people want to take the risk of passing near a "suspect" package then isn't that up to them?

I'd suggest it's the offence of obstructing police in the execution of their duty to ignore a cordon and pass near a suspect package. The police have a duty to protect life. Someone passing through a potential crime scene can also destroy evidence.

A cop direction traffic has the power to require pedestrians to stop. RTA 1988 S37

RTA 1988 S163 the power for a cop in uniform to stop drivers or cyclists on a road without any suspicion of any offence.

There are other powers as well but those 3 should cover most stops.

Hmmm sounds like we do live in a police state then if they can order us about when we're doing nowt wrong other than ignoring their orders - ah well....

Which Utopia are you comparing us to if you think preventing people from walking past a possible bomb or other crime scene makes it a police state. I'd guess the police in most if not all countries have similar powers.

[pete75]

I'd suggest it's the offence of obstructing police in the execution of their duty to ignore a cordon and pass near a suspect package. The police have a duty to protect life. Someone passing through a potential crime scene can also destroy evidence.

A cop direction traffic has the power to require pedestrians to stop. RTA 1988 S37

RTA 1988 S163 the power for a cop in uniform to stop drivers or cyclists on a road without any suspicion of any offence.

There are other powers as well but those 3 should cover most stops.

Hmmm sounds like we do live in a police state then if they can order us about when we're doing nowt wrong other than ignoring their orders - ah well....

Which Utopia are you comparing us to if you think preventing people from walking past a possible bomb or other crime scene makes it a police state. I'd guess the police in most if not all countries have similar powers.

Maybe. Like the OP I'm just a bit annoyed about a stopping incident I was involved in recently.. A couple of us were stopped on a ride a month or so ago. A PC so young he still had acne rudely told us to go back road closed - no explanation, no politeness , no alternative route suggested- maybe he'd just been on a course - "how to make the public dislike the police force".
Compare that to an incident when I was about 10 where they found a 250lb bomb. Constable said to us in friendly way - don't go that way lads they've found a bleddy great bomb and it might go off . I suppose what's annoying is not what the police do but the way some of them go about doing it - which is what prompted the OP's post.

Doubtless you'd regard what happened to the OP as just using "RTA 1988 S163 the power for a cop in uniform to stop drivers or cyclists on a road without any suspicion of any offence."

[pete75]

Pete75

Going back to my post about bomb disposal, I'd assume that it was obvious to anybody who was prepared to think things through for even a moment, that there are more reasons to keep people away from a suspected parcel bomb than the important matter of protecting the public. Another that's obvious to me is the need for the military personnel dealing with something like this at considerable personal risk to be able to concentrate 100% on the job in hand, without having to watch their backs, either for somebody showing off being a pain or, in a rare but possible case, somebody involved with the planting of a bomb interfering with the process of making it safe. In circumstances like this, the police do have to give instructions and fortunately most people accept that necessity. In general, the people who make the most noise are those least likely to do anything: IME, anybody intent on doing something keeps quiet and just gets on with it.

Yes that is a reasonable justification to keep people away though surely it's the bomb that would make a lot of noise not the people.

As an aside a ww1 hand grenade turned up in some potatoes at a local chip factory - they'd been grown somewhere in France like the Somme valley. They actually closed the factory for 6 hours while it was dealt with. In France when they find grenades when sorting potatoes they just put them to one side and ring the army up when they've enough to make collection worth while. Farmers put unexploded shells on the roadside for collection. I think we sometimes over react in this country.

[661-Pete]

I suppose, if the police block your path and give no reasons, there are innocuous questions you might ask to get closer to the truth. Don't ask "is it a terrorist incident?" because, even if the constable knows, they're hardly likely to be at liberty to tell you! I would probably start off with "is it a RTA?" followed up perhaps by "is it a crime scene?", or "is there a risk of fire/explosion/chemical spill?" or similar.

All of these are valid reasons to deny the road access to all comers. I think, if it were a terrorist threat, the phrase "crime scene" would more or less cover it without being too specific.

[thirdcrank]

... I think we sometimes over react in this country.

I'm sure we've all done that from time to time.

BTW, they do say that when the police seem to be getting younger, it's really a sign that you're getting older.

[pete75]

... I think we sometimes over react in this country.

I'm sure we've all done that from time to time.

BTW, they do say that when the police seem to be getting younger, it's really a sign that you're getting older.

Not when they've still got acne