A couple of times when I have been on longish rides I have noticed after a while that my sweat stinks. Not of roses and the finest fragrances as I would normally. Really stinks. Metallic and like ammonia. I understand that this is due to burning protein not carbs. As someone who has struggled a fair few times when I have tried to do the right thing of carb loading, grazing on a ride etc., I wondered if I should be concerned that I have noticed this? The times it has happened have coincided with me feeling ok on a bike rather than feeling empty. Is this burning muscle or just protein. I don't care what I am burning as long as I do ok on a ride, but I do object to the smell and worry about the sustainability if I am burning muscle.
I did search but couldn't see if this had been discussed before. I would be surprised if it hadn't.
Thanks
Claire
Ammonia/protein/ketosis
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Claireysmurf
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Claireysmurf
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Re: Ammonia/protein/ketosis
In fact I may even have asked. My memory is appalling, sorry
Re: Ammonia/protein/ketosis
Wiki is your friend....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis
Glycogen is the first energy store to be used, next its fat metabolism, which produces ketosis.
Fat metabolism can support low-level exercise between café stops, but if you are pressing on you need some carbs or you risk bonk.
Because ketosis is the desired state on low-carb diets for weight loss (and dieting is a huge industry) you can actually buy urine test strips to check if you are ketotic.
Glycogen is the first energy store to be used, next its fat metabolism, which produces ketosis.
Fat metabolism can support low-level exercise between café stops, but if you are pressing on you need some carbs or you risk bonk.
Because ketosis is the desired state on low-carb diets for weight loss (and dieting is a huge industry) you can actually buy urine test strips to check if you are ketotic.
Bike fitting D.I.Y. .....http://wheel-easy.org.uk/wp-content/upl ... -2017a.pdf
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Remember, anything you do (or don't do) to your bike can have safety implications
Tracks in the Dales etc...http://www.flickr.com/photos/52358536@N06/collections/
Remember, anything you do (or don't do) to your bike can have safety implications
Re: Ammonia/protein/ketosis
I think Colin is right on the nail - google "ketosis body odour". Drinking more water seems to help.
Re: Ammonia/protein/ketosis
A lot of ultra endurance athletes in the states are training their bodies to be fat adapted (ketosis) as this is the state where the body is burning fat for energy. They are doing this both to lose body fat and/or to access the fat stores for energy. The amount of energy that the body can store as glycogen is very limited and will run out in a few hours, if you are not topping it up by eating/drinking carbs or burning calories faster than you can digest (rather than eat) them, but there are of thousands of calories available to be used for energy in our fat stores - that's what fat is for. The problem is that the western diet is so high in carbs and we are so sedentary that we are not used to utilizing our fat for energy in this way. So endurance athletes are starting to train their bodies to be fat adapted and use this store when the glycogen runs out. From what I have read (I haven't tried it) it takes about 6 weeks to become fat adapted and is quite difficult.
All that said, your brain needs carbs to function so you should never carb deplete completely.
www.bengreenfieldfitness.com is a good source of information for ketosis, fat adaptation and endurance training.
PS, I'm not an expert or a doctor, so you if this doesn't sound like what is happening for you then I would probably mention it to my doctor just to be safe
All that said, your brain needs carbs to function so you should never carb deplete completely.
www.bengreenfieldfitness.com is a good source of information for ketosis, fat adaptation and endurance training.
PS, I'm not an expert or a doctor, so you if this doesn't sound like what is happening for you then I would probably mention it to my doctor just to be safe
Re: Ammonia/protein/ketosis
The title of your thread is a bit confusing.
Are you detecting both ammonia and evidence of ketosis? (Apart from specific testing kits for ketones, mentioned above, ketosis can often be detected by an acetone like odour on the breath) Also are you still on the fasting diet? This would certainly exacerbate the situation. I think I mentioned previously that I don't think it's a good Idea to exercise much above 60%-65% of HR Max on fasting days. Deliberate ketosis is still controversial and would normally be carried out under medical supervision and under strict dietary control I think . The only instance of this I know of is in the treatment of some forms of epilepsy, particularly in young children.
The ammonia is more puzzling. I doubt very much that its from protein metabolism. Working muscles do produce ammonia and in significant amounts when exercised hard (above80% HR Max) It would certainly appear in the bloodstream but I've not heard of it being detectable in sweat. It might be a good Idea to talk to your GP.
Are you detecting both ammonia and evidence of ketosis? (Apart from specific testing kits for ketones, mentioned above, ketosis can often be detected by an acetone like odour on the breath) Also are you still on the fasting diet? This would certainly exacerbate the situation. I think I mentioned previously that I don't think it's a good Idea to exercise much above 60%-65% of HR Max on fasting days. Deliberate ketosis is still controversial and would normally be carried out under medical supervision and under strict dietary control I think . The only instance of this I know of is in the treatment of some forms of epilepsy, particularly in young children.
The ammonia is more puzzling. I doubt very much that its from protein metabolism. Working muscles do produce ammonia and in significant amounts when exercised hard (above80% HR Max) It would certainly appear in the bloodstream but I've not heard of it being detectable in sweat. It might be a good Idea to talk to your GP.