Advice on hub position please

[Revolution]

I am currently doing up my Claud Butler and have found an issue with the rear wheel with which I would welcome helpful advice;
The hub is a Mavic and the cassette a 7 speed Shimano. At present there is play within the cassette due to insufficient spacer thickness. I think I need to add a 1mm spacer before sliding on the cassette to rectify this. The problem then is that the cassette sprocket fowls the frame. Can I swop the axle spacers around so that the OLD remains the same but the hub sits further away from the drive side of the frame? What should I be aware of with regard to its position in the frame? Surprisingly at present the centre of the wheel seems to sit quite a bit away from the centre of the frame so I assume it could be moved more to the centre ------wheel dishing??? do I need to check / adjust that?

[Brucey]

a quick fix is to fit a washer between the RH locknut and the frame.

It may be possible to respace the hub but this is not always easy with cartridge bearing hubs; even Mavic one vary considerably in this regard. Any pics?

If the wheel doesn't sit central in the frame then the dish is wrong or the frame is bent.

If you reverse the rear wheel in the frame and the rim sits in the exact same spot then the wheel is OK but the frame is bent. If the rim moves to a different position then the dish is wrong.

Before redishing the wheel, be sure to resolve any hub spacing issues i.e. RHS clearance and overall OLN width for your frame.

cheers

[Revolution]

Thanks for the above Brucey,
I'll try and do some photos tonight and will check the wheel as you suggest then report back.
Many thanks.

[531colin]

What about putting the 1mm spacer between the lockring and the top sprocket?
As Brucey says, centralising the rim in the frame is a separate issue.....either wheel dish or the back end of the frame is wrong.

[Revolution]

What about putting the 1mm spacer between the lockring and the top sprocket?

How will the lock ring lock against the spacer? Surely the lockring serrations have to sit against the serrations on the face of the first sprocket?

[531colin]

What about putting the 1mm spacer between the lockring and the top sprocket?

How will the lock ring lock against the spacer? Surely the lockring serrations have to sit against the serrations on the face of the first sprocket?

I have an idea these crinkly-shaped steel ones were sometimes used between lockring and spacer....perhaps I dreamed it?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-cs-hg-1mm-sprocket-spacer/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&utm_source=pla&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=uk&kpid=5360390269

I have seen people torque up lockrings like they were building the Forth bridge, but I think they only need to be reasonably secure so they don't fret and work loose....I would think a drop of threadlock would be enough.

[Brucey]

at one time shimano used a thin shim between the lockring and the top sprocket. However this still allowed the serrations to function normally, the washer was so thin. After a few years they ditched this idea because the washer used to fail during installation; if parts of it poked out they could foul the chain and cause bad running on the smallest sprocket.

Although the lockring might not engage and lock perfectly via a spacer next to it, this isn't likely to be the biggest problem; many shimano cassettes have smallest sprockets that overhang the freehub body. This means that they won't slide over the splines very much further than when they are installed normally, so (say) a 7s cassette on an 8s body can't be spaced off on the right, it has to be on the left. If a spacer is added on the right the smallest sprocket just bottoms on the freehub body, and all the larger cogs are left loose.

cheers

[Revolution]

Ok, Thanks for your thoughts.
I checked the frame by placing a straight edge against the down tube and the seat tube and then measured the distance from that straight edge to the drop out. I did this on both sides and thankfully the distance was identical - 50mm. So I think I can assume that the frame is true.
As I said, the wheel centre sits quite a way off the frame centre line, nearer the drive side. So presumably shifting it along the axle a bit would address this and solve the problem of the cog hitting the frame. As you can see, it's very close to the end of the axle

The other side has loads of room

My thought is to swop the 5mm spacer on the non-drive side with the 1mm spacer which is immediately before the lock nut on the axle picture

This would effectively move the wheel by 4mm to the left giving me enough room to add a Shimano 1mm spacer behind the cassette which would resolve the cassette play problem.
meaning that the cassette would have shifted by only 3mm to the left. I'm not sure if this will mess up the gear indexing which was working fine despite having a wobbly cassette but I guess the think to do is try it.

[Brucey]

I would be surprised if you needed more than 1-2mm on the DS to clear the frame OK.

If your cassette is wobbly it might be

-an illusion (HG cogsets often look that way because of the tooth profiles)
- loose bearings in the freehub or
- a freehub body that isn't bolted securely to the hubshell.

BTW that looks like a shimano hub you have there.

cheers

[Revolution]

Thanks for the useful info - You are right Bruce, the hub is Shimano. I think I assumed it was Mavic as it has a Mavic spacer behind the cassette.
So it appears that the freehub body is for a 10speed and is too wide to tighten against a 7 speed cassette. I could have replaced the freehub with a shorter one but £15 that could be spent on something else....... I have added a 1mm spacer and now the lockring tightens the cassette as it should.
I also discovered that the Over Locknut Distance should be 126mm. The hub I have is 130 so I have compromised by replacing the 5mm spacer with a 3mm one so now OLD = 128mm which allows the wheel to drop in without having to pull the frame apart. The chain line is only about 2mm out from where it should be - I don't think that will be an issue
I will now take the wheel to Bristol Bicycle Workshop who can true it up and correct the dish - Ah! that's what the £15 is for!