What would you do?

[Sum]

I think Malaconotus' point was that the OP is under the impression that the original hub still belongs to him. Presumably he will be going down to the LBS demanding the old hub back. However the LBS may be well aware that the old hub isn't his anymore. They may even claim that the insurance co./van man told the LBS to dispose of the old parts replaced as a result of the accident and they're laying claim to it.

Note that I’m not defending the LBS but the OP should consider this eventuality and how he might then respond to the LBS. If the OP has already contacted the insurance co./van man and they said the OP can keep the replaced parts then the matter is simple enough: the LBS shouldn't have kept the OP’s hub. If he hasn't then it seems a bit of a grey area.

[Bicycler]

Okay, that makes sense. I had a car insurance claim a long time back that required using an approved repairer that the insurance company dealt with. I've never had a bike insurance claim but isn't it normally a case of getting quotes from LBSs and the insurance paying the claimant rather than organising the repairs directly? Surely this then returns to being a simple contract between the customer and the shop?

[Sum]

It can be dealt with either way. From the OP's account on the previous page it appears the LBS dealt with the company that did the damage directly, so they may have asked the company what to do with the replaced parts. On the otherhand they may have not asked the company and are simply chancing their arm.

[Bicycler]

From the OP's account on the previous page it appears the LBS dealt with the company that did the damage directly, so they may have asked the company what to do with the replaced parts.

Fair enough, I missed that bit

[LondonBikeCommuter]

O.K I'll do a proper update and clarification when I get home but after my original email seemed to have be ignored I sent a slightly more legalistic one and things have taken a rather odd turn.

[Malaconotus]

It can be dealt with either way. From the OP's account on the previous page it appears the LBS dealt with the company that did the damage directly, so they may have asked the company what to do with the replaced parts. On the otherhand they may have not asked the company and are simply chancing their arm.

The more usual situation is that the LBS provide a quote to the customer which they then use to claim from the insurer. In the majority of cases the customer is reimbursed directly by the insurer and then pays the LBS for the work. But whether the payment is direct to the LBS from the insurer or via the customer, as I understand it the damaged parts always become the property of the insurer. Bike shops hold on to or destroy bikes and parts written off for insurance claims all the time. They shouldn't and in my own experience don't give them back to customers unless salvage is paid. No reputable LBS is going to run the risk of being accused of defrauding insurers.

On the face of it, using the hub to provide a temporary solution for the OP was a slightly risky thing for them to do since the hub, being part of a written off wheel, would be the property of the insurer. I can understand why they did it in the interests of customer service to provide a temporary solution for the OP, but it does seem they have not communicated clearly with the customer. I guess it's quite possible the OP has been speaking to a series of Saturday boys on whom these technicalities are lost.

[Bicycler]

The more usual situation is that the LBS provide a quote to the customer which they then use to claim from the insurer. In the majority of cases the customer is reimbursed directly by the insurer and then pays the LBS for the work. But whether the payment is direct to the LBS from the insurer or via the customer, as I understand it the damaged parts always become the property of the insurer. Bike shops hold on to or destroy bikes and parts written off for insurance claims all the time. They shouldn't and in my own experience don't give them back to customers unless salvage is paid. No reputable LBS is going to run the risk of being accused of defrauding insurers.

In that situation, I don't see how the LBS could have any authority to seize property. They are being employed directly by a customer for work to be done. Now, the insurance company may wish to have their property or they may not care but it is surely a civil matter between the customer and insurance company, that is the transfer of ownership. The LBS has no role other than as provider of the service. Keeping property without the express permission of either party it is definitely theft.

It is possible that a customer may be seeking to defraud an insurance company, in which case the correct action is to inform the police if there is any evidence. We have an established legal system for sorting out all kinds of civil disputes and criminal offences. So far it has managed without third parties' extrajudicial appropriation of private property

[LollyKat]

... as I understand it the damaged parts always become the property of the insurer. Bike shops hold on to or destroy bikes and parts written off for insurance claims all the time. They shouldn't and in my own experience don't give them back to customers unless salvage is paid. No reputable LBS is going to run the risk of being accused of defrauding insurers.

But the hub wasn't damaged. According to the OP's original thread viewtopic.php?f=7&t=83434, the bike was damaged:

my Moda Calore bike which was a few weeks old had been hit by a van and damaged.

I went to an LBS and got a quote for repair. The van man was as good as gold and paid up in full for the quote the LBS submitted within a couple of days.

A new "frame" and rear wheel where the 2 main items.

With such a new bike the bits should/would be replaced like for like by the insurance. So either the OP gets a totally new wheel with a new, identical £200 hub and the old hub remains the property of the insurer, or he gets a new wheel rim (identical to the damaged one) built on to the original, undamaged hub.

It does NOT seem right that he is fobbed off with an 'inferior' hub and that the LBS hangs on to the expensive one.

[Flinders]

Why didn't the shop build the wheel on the undamaged hub?
In this instance I'd contact my insurer and involve them. I think the shop should have to build a wheel on the original hub and exchange it for the one on the cheap hub.

[Flinders]

[/quote] With such a new bike the bits should/would be replaced like for like by the insurance. So either the OP gets a totally new wheel with a new, identical £200 hub and the old hub remains the property of the insurer, or he gets a new wheel rim (identical to the damaged one) built on to the original, undamaged hub.

It does NOT seem right that he is fobbed off with an 'inferior' hub and that the LBS hangs on to the expensive one.[/quote]

Exactly.

[Malaconotus]

In that situation, I don't see how the LBS could have any authority to seize property. They are being employed directly by a customer for work to be done. Now, the insurance company may wish to have their property or they may not care but it is surely a civil matter between the customer and insurance company, that is the transfer of ownership. The LBS has no role other than as provider of the service. Keeping property without the express permission of either party it is definitely theft.

It is possible that a customer may be seeking to defraud an insurance company, in which case the correct action is to inform the police if there is any evidence. We have an established legal system for sorting out all kinds of civil disputes and criminal offences. So far it has managed without third parties' extrajudicial appropriation of private property

I follow your reasoning, and will investigate further. Of course, this situation is different to the OP's where, as I understand it, the insurer made payment directly to the LBS.