Cycling UK Forum

This relates to my previous post but is less rambling.....

A dealer offered to lend me a rear wheel so I could go on a 2 week tour as the replacement wheel (paid for) wasn't in stock. The dealer used my original little used (50 miles?) hub in that wheel.

When I picked up the bike fully repaired (cost £1100+) the very last thing he said before I was about to leave was and to paraphrase.... as I built you a new wheel I think its only fair that I keep the hub he seemed very adamant. I'm a cycle numpty and know nothing about parts costs etc.

I mentioned this to my clued-up cycle mate and his jaw hit the ground saying that it was a £200 hub and I'd well and truly been taken for a ride. He demanded that I go back and reclaim the hub.

I've got some emails regarding lending me a wheel but no payment or anything is spoken of. Mate thinks dealer knew all along he wanted the hub just kept quite till the very end.

What would people here do.

Is it fair and square or have I been taken for a ride? should I go and get the hub back?

You've been taken for a ride - there was no verbal or written agreement that he would keep the hub, was there? It sounds as if your mate is right.

Though I'm not quite clear what has happened. When dealer offered to 'lend you a wheel' did he have to build it specially for you on your own hub? Had you made it clear to him that you wanted to use that hub in the replacement rim that you really wanted but which was out of stock? It sounds as if he didn't make it clear to you that he would charge for building the loan wheel. It seems fair if that he should be paid for his time and materials in, but the cost shouldn't come near the £200 of your hub.

It sounds as if he is trying it on - the Citizens' Advice Bureau may be able to help.

Thanks LollyKat, was beginning to think I'd offended everyone what with all those views and no replies

Anyway.....

>there was no verbal or written agreement that he would keep the hub, was there?

Categorically, NO!

Shop was aware that I was going on a mini tour and I hoped that the replacement wheel that I'd ordered would turn up in time for that.

It became clear that it wouldn't so the shop owner offered to "lend me a wheel'. I got an email around mid september along the lines of ' I'll build a new wheel using your hub and our rims so you can use the bike'
I didn't ask or require him to build any wheel or use my hub he did that purely off his own back. All I was getting was a lent wheel. No mention of any payment was made or even hinted at at any time. Call me naive but I thought it was a goodwill gesture because the length of time the wheel was taking to turn up.
I used the wheel for 3 weeks and returned it along with the bike to the shop who had now got my new wheel. No payment was asked for or hinted at when I returned it. Turned out it was the wrong wheel. There was a further 2? months of messing around waiting for the wheel. No mention of payment for the loan wheel was made during this time. I then got an email saying the bike was ready for collection. I went to collect it and my original non-damaged spare wheel.

Owner had the made up 'lent' wheel with my hub in his hand and said 'as we made up this wheel for you I think it only fair that we keep the hub'. That was the first and only time payment for the wheel I'd borrowed was mentioned.

There was ABSOLUTELY NO informed consent what so ever that I was giving the shop owner the hub as why would I swap a hardly used 1 month old hub RRP £200 for 3 weeks use of a bog standard wheel.

Hi,

It's a bit confusing. You ordered 'a wheel', which never turned up. But 'a wheel' consists of a hub, spokes and a rim. It seems the hub you ordered was in the shop, and the shop owner used that/your hub to build a wheel using some spokes and a rim they had in stock. This is what your calling the 'lent wheel' ? So what was actually 'lent' was a rim and some spokes. If the hub is the expensive part, why not just keep the 'lent wheel' (paying for that rim and spokes)?

Is it that the shop owner then took back the 'lent wheel' (your hub, their rim and spokes), and gave you in return what exactly ? Your ordered 'wheel' turned up ?

A £200 hub is pretty expensive, what model is it ? Unless it's something exotic, 2 months to wait for a wheel is a pretty long time. You also say you paid £1100 for repairs to the bike. What was repaired ?


cheers

FarOeuf wrote:Hi,

It's a bit confusing. You ordered 'a wheel', which never turned up. But 'a wheel' consists of a hub, spokes and a rim. It seems the hub you ordered was in the shop, and the shop owner used that/your hub to build a wheel using some spokes and a rim they had in stock. This is what your calling the 'lent wheel' ? So what was actually 'lent' was a rim and some spokes. If the hub is the expensive part, why not just keep the 'lent wheel' (paying for that rim and spokes)?

Is it that the shop owner then took back the 'lent wheel' (your hub, their rim and spokes), and gave you in return what exactly ? Your ordered 'wheel' turned up ?

A £200 hub is pretty expensive, what model is it ? Unless it's something exotic, 2 months to wait for a wheel is a pretty long time. You also say you paid £1100 for repairs to the bike. What was repaired ?

I had a buckled rim with bent spokes but an undamaged expensive hub. The wheel I ordered to replace the damaged one wouldn't get to me in time to go on a mini tour. Shop offered to lend me a wheel which translated into them using my undamaged hub along with one of there old/well used rims and spokes. When it came to me collecting the repaired bike the LBS said that as they'd built and lent me a wheel it was only fair that they kept the hub (my expensive hub). I would have no use for the wheel they lent me as I have a 3 week old American Classic Hurricane as a spare. The hub the LBS decided was a fair exchange for the lent wheel was a http://www.justridingalong.com/disk-225-hub.html

Repair was new frame and new wheel set. Also labour to move it all over between damaged bike and new one. I also added a few bits myself. Wheels ordered August '13 arrived January '14

How odd. But no, they can't just go retrospectively claiming your property, even if it was reasonable which this isn't. If you think about it the hub could be sold for enough money to buy a high quality handbuilt touring wheel, instead you got a loan of some spares built around a hub you owned. The thing that makes it sound dubious is that they went through the effort of building a new wheel around your existing hub rather than just lending you a half decent wheel that was lying around the shop.

Be quick in asking for it back before it gets 'lent' to somebody else, either in exchange for customers' money or bits off their bikes

Just out of interest why wasn't the new wheel you ordered built around the low-mileage undamaged hub?

Thanks just putting an email together telling them whats what and I'll be around to collect the hub. Just wanted a bit of moral support as I'm not a particularly confrontational person.

As regards the wheel it was an insurance job. This LBS decided what needed mending and ordered the bits billing the company that did the damage. As per my post at the time it seems that its a hugely profitable system for the LBS.

I think you're right. Get your bits back, and find another shop.

Thats the thing, everything is now sorted which is why I guess the LBS decided that after 4 months that it was going to tell me that they'd take my hub in payment for the wheel. They had numerous opportunities to do it before.

Just one quick thing thats been bugging me should I have specifically asked then the loan wheel was offered if and was there a cost? I assumed that it was a goodwill gesture as no mention of payment was ever made.
Thanks

If it's an insurance thing, parts which have been replaced may technically be the property of the insurance company though I really doubt they are interested in bits of bikes. I'd say it's unreasonable to offer to rent somebody a wheel without stating that explicitly and stating a price. How can you enter into a contract if you don't know what you're agreeing to pay? If they used the word "lend" as you did in your post, I agree that it implies a goodwill gesture rather than a service requiring payment.

LondonBikeCommuter wrote:Thanks just putting an email together telling them whats what and I'll be around to collect the hub. Just wanted a bit of moral support as I'm not a particularly confrontational person.

Can you take a friend along to back you up? Also I wonder how much warning you should give them if any - they may conveniently 'lose' or sell it.

Just one quick thing thats been bugging me should I have specifically asked then the loan wheel was offered if and was there a cost? I assumed that it was a goodwill gesture as no mention of payment was ever made.
Thanks

"Lend" means just that - no costs involved! If he wanted to charge a bit for building (which would have been reasonable) he should have made that clear to you at the time, i.e. renting it. In the circumstances (i.e. a nice expensive insurance job for the shop) it is quite understandable that you thought it was a goodwill gesture.

I think your pal is probably right that this scam artist planned this all along. Take along a friend or two - preferably big ones! It's best if they are club cyclists as the guy won't want to damage his reputation, surely. Consult the CAB and be prepared to threaten to sue him for the return of the hub or its value. He doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Have sent a short email along the lines of when can I pick up my almost new hardly used £210 hub.

I'll see what they say and take it from there.

Bicycler wrote:How odd. But no, they can't just go retrospectively claiming your property, even if it was reasonable which this isn't. If you think about it the hub could be sold for enough money to buy a high quality handbuilt touring wheel, instead you got a loan of some spares built around a hub you owned. The thing that makes it sound dubious is that they went through the effort of building a new wheel around your existing hub rather than just lending you a half decent wheel that was lying around the shop.

Be quick in asking for it back before it gets 'lent' to somebody else, either in exchange for customers' money or bits off their bikes

Just out of interest why wasn't the new wheel you ordered built around the low-mileage undamaged hub?

Quite agree with that. Very strange indeed. And the massive amount you paid for a repair doesn't seem right either. Something is majorly wrong with the whole incident. They could have just build a wheel, using your hub and new rims and spokes instead of fuffing with 'lending'. It would make much more sense. And I'm concerned that they waited so long to actually offer you to build one. Unless you have something very unusual, it shouldn't take that long to get a wheel sorted.
I'd be interested which bike shop that is. It seems outrageous.

If the wheel has been written off as part of an insurance claim then the hub belongs to the insurer, not the OP or the bike shop. The OP can acquire ownership by paying salvage to the insurer.

Agreed. But do insurance companies really go round collecting broken bike wheels in the hope that something can be salvaged? They certainly haven't made any effort in this case. If the OP wants a clear conscience they can ask the insurer if they want any bits of the broken wheel, my guess is that they don't and will allow the OP to retain them. Surely if they were bothered about the price of a hub they'd have had a new wheel built around the old hub rather than pay for a whole new wheel? I really suspect that written off bike parts are virtually never of high enough value or in good enough condition to be worth collecting, stripping and selling on. As we all know the scrap car market is a different matter entirely.

Either way the shop can't go around appropriating bits and pieces because they would like them