Bike fitting...

[barrym]

First off I must add my +1 to the thread "Well Done CTC" on this month's magazine. As a new member it was my first copy too and I am impressed. The first things to catch my eye were the Oxford Works Bike, and the feature on bike fitting, both very interesting.

It is the second of these that got me thinking

It takes me back to my motorcycling days when lots of folk would spend ages and £££££s on suspension tweaking and stuff to gain that extra bit for their congested ride to work, or Sunday morning ride. Do you detect any cynicism?

Well I wonder about this 'fitting' business. Who is it aimed at and who would benefit. I'm a rider with a hybrid that I tested for size on stand-over height mainly. Obviously I have the saddle at roughly the right height, but that's it. I have mucked about with saddle fore and aft following reading KOPS stuff, but couldn't really detect any difference.

Is this stuff mainly for the 'marginal gains' that Dave Brailsford refers to at that high level? Can it really effect me on my 5 or 10 mile trip to the shops?

Like the motorcycle industry, I'm sure the bike industry would like us to continue tweaking this and that buying a longer thingy or a higher whatsit.

I suppose if I got back to reading the reports in the magazine on long tours, and got persuaded to undertake one myself, I might find some benefit on those 100+ mile days.

[Vorpal]

If you are comfortable on the bike, don't worry about it.

When I make changes it is usually to improve comfort. The only significant change I've made in the last couple of years was to convert from flats + bar ends to butterfly bars on my hybrid. I did play around with saddles some on my road bike, but I ended up where I started, in the end.

[NUKe]

hybrids are not like race bikes, so long as you can get the seat upto the right hieght It essentially fits assuming the reach isn't too long, your knees don't catch the bars and your comfortable. Bikes with drop bars racing/audax/sportive/touirng the length of the top tube and the stem become more critical as you sart to distribute body weight between hands seat and feet. It then becomes a science all in its self with everything coming into play. Colin and Brucey have much more ex[pertise in this area, colin even designed a cycle.

[barrym]

My admittedly extremely limited exposure to this has been to Trek's saddle fitting thing where you sit on it and it leaves a coloured mark , that tells you which saddles to go for. I sat, I bought, I tried, and took it back and changed it for the fattest, squashiest one and I still find it comfortable today.

Also interesting to note the guy in the Cycle article seemed to revert to his original settings after the lengthy fittings as either they worked or were 'just' comfortable.

I don't doubt that at the margins be they riding position extremities, duration in those positions, or performance at those margins, there are gains to be had. If Colin and Bruce indeed say it matters, then I defer to their experience.

When I used to ride motorbikes, when buying a new one, the dealers often used to offer a test ride. I seldom bothered, or at least if I did, I seldom made a decision based upon it. I found that the more I rode it the more at home I felt. I think it is the same with cycles in the sort of riding that I'm likely to do. Familiarity breeds comfortability, to corrupt that well know expression.

[ukdodger]

First off I must add my +1 to the thread "Well Done CTC" on this month's magazine. As a new member it was my first copy too and I am impressed. The first things to catch my eye were the Oxford Works Bike, and the feature on bike fitting, both very interesting.

It is the second of these that got me thinking

It takes me back to my motorcycling days when lots of folk would spend ages and £££££s on suspension tweaking and stuff to gain that extra bit for their congested ride to work, or Sunday morning ride. Do you detect any cynicism?

Well I wonder about this 'fitting' business. Who is it aimed at and who would benefit. I'm a rider with a hybrid that I tested for size on stand-over height mainly. Obviously I have the saddle at roughly the right height, but that's it. I have mucked about with saddle fore and aft following reading KOPS stuff, but couldn't really detect any difference.

Is this stuff mainly for the 'marginal gains' that Dave Brailsford refers to at that high level? Can it really effect me on my 5 or 10 mile trip to the shops?

Like the motorcycle industry, I'm sure the bike industry would like us to continue tweaking this and that buying a longer thingy or a higher whatsit.

I suppose if I got back to reading the reports in the magazine on long tours, and got persuaded to undertake one myself, I might find some benefit on those 100+ mile days.

If your bike suits you good enough. Bespoke frames cost an awful lot of money and frankly unless you're into serious racing or an unusual build I dont think it makes a lot of difference. You can buy a variety of shapes and sizes ready made too and for a lot less. The one thing you do get though with a bespoke frame is looks. Usually the paint job is superb and any decent framebuilder will smooth down those ugly herringbone welds where the tubes meet that you see in today's production lugless frames.

You dont even see lugged productions frames now either. Most likely because robots make the welded ones.

[jezer]

I believe these days most of the pros ride standard frames, whereas in the past they had them made to measure. I think for us mortals a stock frame is normally fine. Most suppliers offer a selection of finishing kit, so you can still get the end result of your choice. Of course there are still a good number of excellent bespoke frame builders, normally using steel tubing. You pays your money.....

[531colin]

Bike fitting is all smoke and mirrors, anybody can set themselves up properly just using a bit of common sense.
Or is it?
Keep an eye on this thread to see how many different answers this guy gets to what seems at the outset to be the most basic of questions.......http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83609

[jezer]

Oh dear, another can of worms is opening up. I expect there are more bike builders than car manufacturers in the UK Well, that's as it should be of course, but I suspect many of the frame builders are still cottage industries. Do other countries still embrace the same traditions

[ukdodger]

Oh dear, another can of worms is opening up. I expect there are more bike builders than car manufacturers in the UK Well, that's as it should be of course, but I suspect many of the frame builders are still cottage industries. Do other countries still embrace the same traditions

There's plenty in the US and Japan for sure. Framebuilding was in decline until the latest surge in cycling interest. I'm guessing but I would imagine their future lies in producing frames with a bespoke good quality finish rather than the 'fit'. Personally I hope steel frames dont decline to the point where they stop producing the metal for them. The US is the only place I know that still produces good quality lugs. Chinese framebuilding steel is as far as I know all made from reclaimed steel. Hence they pit and rust sooner.

[531colin]

Theres room for individual builders.
Some of us want offset back end, particular steering geometry, sloped/horizontal top tube/extended head tube, particular tube diameters to give a specific degree of flex, track ends, eccentric BBs, the list goes on and on.....

[bigjim]

Jobst Brandt in this interview described his bike. http://cozybeehive.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/jobst-brandt-part-iv.html
I love the fact that he has only one bike, yet rides 10,000 miles year.
He has it built to his personal spec and it lasts him 20yrs.
If only I could get into that mindset.
In more detail. http://bikecult.com/works/archive/04bicycles/pjohnsonJB04.html

[drossall]

You always used to get bike fitting advice free by joining a club (or a CTC section). It wasn't clear, from the article, that paying got you anything better, except perhaps in cases where specialist advice was needed (e.g. coping with the old injuries mentioned in the article).

[Gearoidmuar]

It took me years to get all of it right by tinkering. Saddle height is the easiest, but then reach and degree of drop enter the arena..

When I had it right, and I ordered a bike by mail-order I would say...

What I want is that when the saddle is at such and such a height, I want the bars to be such a distance from the point where the seatpin intersects the saddle and the bars to be 2 inches lower than the saddle at that height (That's what I find most comfortable).
Every time I did that, the bike was perfect..
So, I think that a bespoke frame is a total waste of money. Spend the money you save on panniers, better components etc.

[tatanab]

You always used to get bike fitting advice free by joining a club (or a CTC section).

Agreed, that is how I did it. My position was not something I actively thought about when I bought my first "racer" at the age of 14, but it evolved as I absorbed knowledge by observing and taking advice from riders when I started club riding at the age of 16. These days there are an enormous number of riders who have nothing to do with clubs and find their information from books and the internet. The problem with the internet in particular is that you have no idea of the experience etc of the person issuing the advice whereas in clubs of course you can see the person and judge the validity of the advice.

So, I think that a bespoke frame is a total waste of money.

From the point of view of fitting a bike to you I probably agree, but I have firm ideas about what braze ons I want and specifically where I want them which is not something a stock frame offers.

It took me years to get all of it right by tinkering. Saddle height is the easiest, but then reach and degree of drop enter the arena

But this changes according to fashion and flexibility of our own aging joints. e.g. 40 years or so ago the fashion was for very deep drops with the stem set about an inch lower than the saddle, these days the fashion is for very shallow drops with the stem set much lower. I use a sort of mid depth drops but 45 years after starting riding I find that my stem has crept up a bit.

[StellaLdn.]

Bike fitting is a science, apparently. I recently watched this rather interesting video about this topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxNznrlRXGU