I'm thinking about purchasing an accomodation site on the Coast and Castles route from Newcastle to Edinburgh - the basic B and B accommodation is there already, but I have the opportunity to provide some new-build cycling-specific units onsite. I'm thinking along the lines of 4 or 5 separate 3-bedded units (either a double and a single bed, or three singles in each), comprising tiled/vinyl entrance area with built-in shelf/doocot storage and hangers, adjacent hardwearing carpet 'slob-out' with sofa, armchair and tv, shower/wet room with wc, and sleeping gallery above (double-height over the 'slob-out'. I wouldn't envisage providing evening meals, but I'd provide breakfasts (in a separate communal dining room) and packed lunches to order. The site is big enough to allow for separate drying room and secure bike storage.
Does that seem reasonable, or does anyone have any specific preferences that could be incorporated - bearing in mind that I want to attract leisure cyclists as well as spartans.
If I was to suggest that it would be strictly vegetarian, would that be likely to seriously restrict my market?
All views welcomed...!
Cheers,
Tartan
Accommodation - General Query
Re: Accommodation - General Query
You need to look at the economics. People that use hostels are usually on a budget and one of the attractions of the hostel is the extra savings to be made by self catering evening meals. Are you providing kitchen facilities? Around £20 per person per night is about the upper limit for hostel style accommodation including breakfast (usually cereal/porridge and toast). The most that I've paid recently was £25 at Glen Uig. First class and a really imaginative breakfast menu. As far as vegetarian menu is concerned, it wouldn't bother me but yes, I think it would restrict your market.
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LondonBikeCommuter
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Re: Accommodation - General Query
FullTartanJacket wrote:If I was to suggest that it would be strictly vegetarian, would that be likely to seriously restrict my market?
Only if you start preaching and trying to convert people.
Re: Accommodation - General Query
Hmmm... an interesting question.
Let’s look at the market:
Living in Northumberland, I have a reasonable grasp of the supply of accommodation south of the border and absolutely no knowledge of it to the north.
From the bottom of the market up, cycle tourists appear have the following options
1. Wild camping: permission required, but possible without; lots of places to hide away in a tent between the Tyne and the Tweed; it’s free, but you need to be self-sufficient.
2. Bothys: There are MBA-maintained bothys in Kielder and Wark Forests, some of them not far from the NCN 68 and Rievers Route. Free, but need to be self-sufficient again.
3. Hostels/bunk houses: eg, Mounthooly in College Valley, slightly off the Coast & Castles. Accommodation about £13 per adult per night; catering available.
4. Official camp sites: prices and facilities vary, but seem to be around £15 a night in high season. Usually includes showers.
5. Bed & Breakfast/smaller hotels: Northumberland appears to be better provided with these than it was 30 years ago; it’s possible to find accommodation between £30 and £70 per night, many of them in villages with pubs that do food. There’s also more ‘travelodge’-style hotels springing up along the A1, not far off the Coast & Castles.
Over the years, I’ve tried most of these between Berwick and Tyneside in three-day, two-day and one-day rides.
So your first questions to be asked are, whereabouts in such a market are you going to pitch yourself?; and will the cycling-specific accommodation abstract business from your B&B?
I think the next most important question has to be with regards to the location of the property. Since the second world war tourism boom, North East England hasn’t managed to win its fair share of tourism business. The conventional wisdom on the subject was that (foreign) tourists went on a five-day tour from London, usually doing a combination of York, Edinburgh, the Lake District and Stratford-upon-Avon. At best, Newcastle became a cheap overnight stop used by coach companies, being half way between York and Edinburgh – customers could have a full day in York, a couple of hours drive to Newcastle, get their heads down before an early start for Edinburgh.
Now that’s why I think you need to consider very carefully the location of this property. If it’s already in a tourism ‘hotspot’ (such as Lindisfarne, Berwick or Alnwick) then you’ll have a ready supply of potential customers. If it’s not, and you want to appeal to the cycle tourist, then your distance from a touring objective is, in my opinion, crucial to your success – I’d think you want to be a day’s ride away from a tourism objective/ride start or finish. For me, that’s somewhere between 30 and 50 miles. Plot the location on a map and work out what’s within a day’s ride, where your cyclists might come from and where they’re likely to be going. (Also bear in mind that cycle tourists tend to be ‘planners’ – spending many a winter’s evening planning their summer adventure – you’ll need your marketing to be in tune with their planning cycle – it might be 2015 before this can be properly launched!).
Going through this exercise might enable you to make a better guess at the size of the cycle tourist market for the property.
Presumably you’ll know the occupancy rate of the B & B. This will help you to estimate the occupancy rate you might eventually achieve for the cyclists’ facilities. With occupancy rate estimate, estimate of nightly prices, a feel for the cycling potential and knowledge of your development costs, you can work out if it’s going to be a viable business proposition.
Finally, don’t forget marketing and promotion. In the early years, you’ll need to budget for a reasonably substantial advertising campaign to achieve some awareness of your offer, until your get established.
Good luck!
Let’s look at the market:
Living in Northumberland, I have a reasonable grasp of the supply of accommodation south of the border and absolutely no knowledge of it to the north.
From the bottom of the market up, cycle tourists appear have the following options
1. Wild camping: permission required, but possible without; lots of places to hide away in a tent between the Tyne and the Tweed; it’s free, but you need to be self-sufficient.
2. Bothys: There are MBA-maintained bothys in Kielder and Wark Forests, some of them not far from the NCN 68 and Rievers Route. Free, but need to be self-sufficient again.
3. Hostels/bunk houses: eg, Mounthooly in College Valley, slightly off the Coast & Castles. Accommodation about £13 per adult per night; catering available.
4. Official camp sites: prices and facilities vary, but seem to be around £15 a night in high season. Usually includes showers.
5. Bed & Breakfast/smaller hotels: Northumberland appears to be better provided with these than it was 30 years ago; it’s possible to find accommodation between £30 and £70 per night, many of them in villages with pubs that do food. There’s also more ‘travelodge’-style hotels springing up along the A1, not far off the Coast & Castles.
Over the years, I’ve tried most of these between Berwick and Tyneside in three-day, two-day and one-day rides.
So your first questions to be asked are, whereabouts in such a market are you going to pitch yourself?; and will the cycling-specific accommodation abstract business from your B&B?
I think the next most important question has to be with regards to the location of the property. Since the second world war tourism boom, North East England hasn’t managed to win its fair share of tourism business. The conventional wisdom on the subject was that (foreign) tourists went on a five-day tour from London, usually doing a combination of York, Edinburgh, the Lake District and Stratford-upon-Avon. At best, Newcastle became a cheap overnight stop used by coach companies, being half way between York and Edinburgh – customers could have a full day in York, a couple of hours drive to Newcastle, get their heads down before an early start for Edinburgh.
Now that’s why I think you need to consider very carefully the location of this property. If it’s already in a tourism ‘hotspot’ (such as Lindisfarne, Berwick or Alnwick) then you’ll have a ready supply of potential customers. If it’s not, and you want to appeal to the cycle tourist, then your distance from a touring objective is, in my opinion, crucial to your success – I’d think you want to be a day’s ride away from a tourism objective/ride start or finish. For me, that’s somewhere between 30 and 50 miles. Plot the location on a map and work out what’s within a day’s ride, where your cyclists might come from and where they’re likely to be going. (Also bear in mind that cycle tourists tend to be ‘planners’ – spending many a winter’s evening planning their summer adventure – you’ll need your marketing to be in tune with their planning cycle – it might be 2015 before this can be properly launched!).
Going through this exercise might enable you to make a better guess at the size of the cycle tourist market for the property.
Presumably you’ll know the occupancy rate of the B & B. This will help you to estimate the occupancy rate you might eventually achieve for the cyclists’ facilities. With occupancy rate estimate, estimate of nightly prices, a feel for the cycling potential and knowledge of your development costs, you can work out if it’s going to be a viable business proposition.
Finally, don’t forget marketing and promotion. In the early years, you’ll need to budget for a reasonably substantial advertising campaign to achieve some awareness of your offer, until your get established.
Good luck!
Re: Accommodation - General Query
If it was strictly vegetarian you might deter 90% of prospective users! i for one don't want to be told what i can and can't eat by anyone!
The other thing is - why 3 bed rooms? why not 5, 2, 4, 1 - 3 is rather an odd number for a group - someone is always left out.
I used a cycling specific but not exclusive hotel in Germany a couple of years ago - very nice, well used but also €50 a night! Some people on here balk at paying anything for accomodation but i don't think £30/£35 a night is excessive for B&B especially if you've got facilities like drying room/secure bike parking in there. Cheaper is nice but i think to some extent its not folks on here that you should be asking, its the people that you want to encourage to visit, Dutch/German tourists in particular (they have the money!) - have a look at similar routes in europe and the sort of accomodation they expect.
You want to make a business of it, you will have overheads, there will be a price where you make a living and a price you don't. Get listed on places like Tripadvisor, Booking.com - i wish you well
The other thing is - why 3 bed rooms? why not 5, 2, 4, 1 - 3 is rather an odd number for a group - someone is always left out.
I used a cycling specific but not exclusive hotel in Germany a couple of years ago - very nice, well used but also €50 a night! Some people on here balk at paying anything for accomodation but i don't think £30/£35 a night is excessive for B&B especially if you've got facilities like drying room/secure bike parking in there. Cheaper is nice but i think to some extent its not folks on here that you should be asking, its the people that you want to encourage to visit, Dutch/German tourists in particular (they have the money!) - have a look at similar routes in europe and the sort of accomodation they expect.
You want to make a business of it, you will have overheads, there will be a price where you make a living and a price you don't. Get listed on places like Tripadvisor, Booking.com - i wish you well
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
Re: Accommodation - General Query
One of the things I have struggled with, is that outside of self-catering, which often want people to book 3 or more nights in row, there is very little good family accomodation.
You obviously need to determine if there is a market for it in your area, but I would recommend 4 beds per unit with the possibility to hire an additional folding bed, or something. That will accomodate most families and smaller groups. It's obviously harder to predict and manage financially, but it may be useful to have 2 or 3 different sizes of unit. If you can be flexible, you may also be able to let beds out as shared hostel-type accomodation.
As for vegetarian... I don't know. There seems to be a higher proportion of vegetarians amongst keen cyclists than in the general population. If you can make it something special... fresh, home made bread? Fresh eggs (look! chickens!), most people won't mind a vegetarian breakfast. You almost certainly will lose some customers for it, but you may also gain some. I guess you have to figure out what the market is like and determine which will be the most beneficial for your business model. And if the food is just standard fare, but without meat, your business is likely to suffer for it.
I am vegetarian, and might well be drawn to a place that advertised vegetarian food. I'm sure that I'm not the only one.
p.s. I don't think providing vegetarian meals is telling anyone what to eat, especially if the charges for food are kept separate from those for accomodation.
You obviously need to determine if there is a market for it in your area, but I would recommend 4 beds per unit with the possibility to hire an additional folding bed, or something. That will accomodate most families and smaller groups. It's obviously harder to predict and manage financially, but it may be useful to have 2 or 3 different sizes of unit. If you can be flexible, you may also be able to let beds out as shared hostel-type accomodation.
As for vegetarian... I don't know. There seems to be a higher proportion of vegetarians amongst keen cyclists than in the general population. If you can make it something special... fresh, home made bread? Fresh eggs (look! chickens!), most people won't mind a vegetarian breakfast. You almost certainly will lose some customers for it, but you may also gain some. I guess you have to figure out what the market is like and determine which will be the most beneficial for your business model. And if the food is just standard fare, but without meat, your business is likely to suffer for it.
I am vegetarian, and might well be drawn to a place that advertised vegetarian food. I'm sure that I'm not the only one.
p.s. I don't think providing vegetarian meals is telling anyone what to eat, especially if the charges for food are kept separate from those for accomodation.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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stephenjubb
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- Location: East Yorkshire
Re: Accommodation - General Query
FullTartanJacket wrote:I'm thinking about purchasing an accomodation site on the Coast and Castles route from Newcastle to Edinburgh - the basic B and B accommodation is there already, but I have the opportunity to provide some new-build cycling-specific units onsite. I'm thinking along the lines of 4 or 5 separate 3-bedded units (either a double and a single bed, or three singles in each), comprising tiled/vinyl entrance area with built-in shelf/doocot storage and hangers, adjacent hardwearing carpet 'slob-out' with sofa, armchair and tv, shower/wet room with wc, and sleeping gallery above (double-height over the 'slob-out'. I wouldn't envisage providing evening meals, but I'd provide breakfasts (in a separate communal dining room) and packed lunches to order. The site is big enough to allow for separate drying room and secure bike storage.
Does that seem reasonable, or does anyone have any specific preferences that could be incorporated - bearing in mind that I want to attract leisure cyclists as well as spartans.
If I was to suggest that it would be strictly vegetarian, would that be likely to seriously restrict my market?
All views welcomed...!
Cheers,
Tartan
I'm presuming you mean that the breakfast provided would be strictly vegetarian? Would not be a problem for most, a good alternative would be to allows them to cook their own of whatever choice they wanted assuming not a b and b.
Or are you saying only vegetarians can only stay? If so (which I doubt) but for completeness I think a lot of people would avoid you.
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eileithyia
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Re: Accommodation - General Query
My reaction was why 3 bed accommodation? Families are often 4 or 5, so would go with the idea of 4 beds / extra pull out bed?
Vegetarian, would not be a problem for me and would probably depend on the type of breakfast offered for others. I noticed some years ago in Oban, that many B&B's were offering continental style breakfasts which can easily be vegetarian. Not everyone wants the huge 'traditional' British greasy fry up before a day's cycling (UGH).
A café in Keswick does not seem to be harmed by being vegetarian, I do not think they obviously advertise themselves as vegetarian... and I guess if you just advertise / include a continental style breakfast many would not notice that was exclusively vegetarian.
I do think you need some sort of self cooking facilities or need to be near facilities where evening meals can be readily obtained.
Vegetarian, would not be a problem for me and would probably depend on the type of breakfast offered for others. I noticed some years ago in Oban, that many B&B's were offering continental style breakfasts which can easily be vegetarian. Not everyone wants the huge 'traditional' British greasy fry up before a day's cycling (UGH).
A café in Keswick does not seem to be harmed by being vegetarian, I do not think they obviously advertise themselves as vegetarian... and I guess if you just advertise / include a continental style breakfast many would not notice that was exclusively vegetarian.
I do think you need some sort of self cooking facilities or need to be near facilities where evening meals can be readily obtained.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
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FullTartanJacket
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Re: Accommodation - General Query
Great replies, and so quick! Thanks all.
For clarification, the breakfast would be vegetarian, NOT the clientele!
I'm particularly swayed by the family accommodation angle - as I'm used to doing trips with only 1 or 2 other people, the 2/3 bed option seemed appropriate - but you're right, that would run the risk of putting family groups off, and they can hold a lot of potential.
EazyPeazy - thanks for the particularly detailed response - without letting too much out of the bag, the site is about 1/2 mile off the actual route, and very (very!) close to particular attractions and a network of circular rides of varying lengths on minor roads. I'm fairly convinced of the viability, in both B&B and cycling terms, but just needed to test out the physicalities of the actual accommodation. I'm an architect, so quite happy about actually providing the accommodation, but I want to make sure I get the right kind.
Thanks again all
Tartan
For clarification, the breakfast would be vegetarian, NOT the clientele!
I'm particularly swayed by the family accommodation angle - as I'm used to doing trips with only 1 or 2 other people, the 2/3 bed option seemed appropriate - but you're right, that would run the risk of putting family groups off, and they can hold a lot of potential.
EazyPeazy - thanks for the particularly detailed response - without letting too much out of the bag, the site is about 1/2 mile off the actual route, and very (very!) close to particular attractions and a network of circular rides of varying lengths on minor roads. I'm fairly convinced of the viability, in both B&B and cycling terms, but just needed to test out the physicalities of the actual accommodation. I'm an architect, so quite happy about actually providing the accommodation, but I want to make sure I get the right kind.
Thanks again all
Tartan
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freewheeling
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Re: Accommodation - General Query
I agree with all points re the size of rooms and the need to cater for families or groups of cyclists on a budget.
Likewise no problems with the vegetarian breakfast, but I can see how it may turn some people away.
One other note on the family thing: we travel with a trailer for 2 kids and I love places where the storage area is large enough (especially when busy) to park the trailer indoors/under cover without having to collapse it and completely unpack it. Just a minor thing but it adds an extra bell and whistle to a stay.
Good luck with it all.
Likewise no problems with the vegetarian breakfast, but I can see how it may turn some people away.
One other note on the family thing: we travel with a trailer for 2 kids and I love places where the storage area is large enough (especially when busy) to park the trailer indoors/under cover without having to collapse it and completely unpack it. Just a minor thing but it adds an extra bell and whistle to a stay.
Good luck with it all.