Cycling UK Forum

yes but a bit strange that since he was quite old his health wasnt being monitored? I read he was trying to clean up his cell and wasnt able to and was moved to a local hospital

Apparently a couple of "collapses" in Prison, after the second, was transferred to Hospital on Friday and suffered a fatal cardiac arrest today

Cunobelin wrote:Apparently a couple of "collapses" in Prison, after the second, was transferred to Hospital on Friday and suffered a fatal cardiac arrest today

seems like a failure of duty of care for the old man?

mercalia wrote:

Cunobelin wrote:Apparently a couple of "collapses" in Prison, after the second, was transferred to Hospital on Friday and suffered a fatal cardiac arrest today

seems like a failure of duty of care for the old man?

It'll be independently investigated so why start questioning on so little information?
Prisoners have the same rights to medical attention as anyone else, I know plenty of people in their 70's who's health isn't constantly being monitored.

mercalia wrote:

Cunobelin wrote:Apparently a couple of "collapses" in Prison, after the second, was transferred to Hospital on Friday and suffered a fatal cardiac arrest today

seems like a failure of duty of care for the old man?

How do you come to that conclusion?

reohn2 wrote:

mercalia wrote:

Cunobelin wrote:Apparently a couple of "collapses" in Prison, after the second, was transferred to Hospital on Friday and suffered a fatal cardiac arrest today

seems like a failure of duty of care for the old man?

How do you come to that conclusion?

Cynically, in Prison being sick is often part of the daily activities and there is a lot of malingering. However the staff are good at spotting this.

The fact that he was transferred to Hospital shows that they did recognise his condition and it was a heart attack after two days in Hospital (if reports are correct) so any alleged failure of a duty to care would appear to be negligence on the part of the Hospital

It would be a fitting tribute to the man, if Clifford's death is surrounded by lies and exaggerations.

Max Clifford Dies While Holidaying With Her Majesty: Mandela And Elvis Pay Tribute

His family are still going to protest his innocence at an appeal hearing I believe they're planning for next year. They're hoping to clear his name.

Personally I don't think anything would clear his name. It'll still be mud to me because of his tabloid / PR job.

Tangled Metal wrote:His family are still going to protest his innocence at an appeal hearing I believe they're planning for next year. They're hoping to clear his name.

Personally I don't think anything would clear his name. It'll still be mud to me because of his tabloid / PR job.

There is of course a material difference between committing a criminal offence and indulging in distasteful PR practices.

Bonefishblues wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:His family are still going to protest his innocence at an appeal hearing I believe they're planning for next year. They're hoping to clear his name.

Personally I don't think anything would clear his name. It'll still be mud to me because of his tabloid / PR job.

There is of course a material difference between committing a criminal offence and indulging in distasteful PR practices.

State the obvious! That does not mean I can't have a view about the man based on what he did for a living.

Tangled Metal wrote:

Bonefishblues wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:His family are still going to protest his innocence at an appeal hearing I believe they're planning for next year. They're hoping to clear his name.

Personally I don't think anything would clear his name. It'll still be mud to me because of his tabloid / PR job.

There is of course a material difference between committing a criminal offence and indulging in distasteful PR practices.

State the obvious! That does not mean I can't have a view about the man based on what he did for a living.

No, but let's be careful not to conflate the two.

His family are attempting to clear him of a criminal offence.

Yes, but I'm saying that I find him a nasty piece of work n because of his day job as a PR feeding tabloid newspapers stories to suit his clients. Even if he's proven innocent if the crimes he's been sentenced to it won't make one jot of difference to me. I believe he's caused a lot of harm from his job.

Tangled Metal wrote:Yes, but I'm saying that I find him a nasty piece of work n because of his day job as a PR feeding tabloid newspapers stories to suit his clients. Even if he's proven innocent if the crimes he's been sentenced to it won't make one jot of difference to me. I believe he's caused a lot of harm from his job.

I agree, not someone whose values one would seek to aspire to, but if cleared it would mean that he was no longer a criminal abuser, which is a quantum difference to a nasty piece of work.

Cunobelin wrote: ... Cynically, in Prison being sick is often part of the daily activities and there is a lot of malingering. However the staff are good at spotting this.

The fact that he was transferred to Hospital shows that they did recognise his condition and it was a heart attack after two days in Hospital (if reports are correct) so any alleged failure of a duty to care would appear to be negligence on the part of the Hospital

It's also reported that he had suffered a heart attack earlier this year and he was only sent to hospital after a second "collapse" in two days. Of course, he is a convicted criminal, but that's something he has in common with all the other inmates. There will be an inquest etc., because this counts as a death in custody, even though he wasn't actually banged up when he died. Prison isn't the holiday camp some suggest, especially for somebody with no previous experience of it. The right to life is one of the human rights we may reduce when we ditch all those foreigners in the European courts.

I'm not sticking up for him as an individual but I feel uncomfortable when something like this happens. I also can't help feeling that the Establishment mixed him a bottle over his sentence, as I posted earlier when he was jailed.

"There is of course a material difference between committing a criminal offence and indulging in distasteful PR practices."

Shame that. Morally no difference - the law is a failure.