Undoing SA AW ball ring

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Carlton green
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by Carlton green »

I wish that I’d read and utilised this thread a couple of years ago, I did get into the hub but it was difficult and took ages.

MOI in Brucey’s post probably means moment of inertia.

Brucey was a great help to most of us here, I for one miss his posts and hope that he’s made some recovery - guess we’ll never know.

For those taking apart the hub: please don’t forget to slacken the cones first. I don’t recall making that particular mistake but sooner or later we all do something that in hindsight was silly.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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simonineaston
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by simonineaston »

guess we’ll never know
Yes - hope he's getting better. We may find out yet, as he had a large online presence across multiple forums (not going to use the pedantic 'fora' as have left my Latin lessons back a long time ago...) and I understand one or two of his closer associates have visited him since his collapse.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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Mick F
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by Mick F »

Grief!

Forget anything being suggested so far on this thread.

What you need is the correct ball-ring spanner, and use a tin of the correct depth with hole in it so the wheel-nut will hold it on.
Meanwhile, the ball-ring spanner is clamped onto the ball-ring.
Loosen off the LH lockring and cone etc.

Fit the ball-ring handle into a bench vice horizontally, and then turn the "horizontal" wheel anti-clockwise.
I guarantee that the ball ring will unscrew.

No hammering, no nothing.
Just buy a ball-ring spanner and eat the contents of the "correct" tin first.

This thread for instance.
There are many others of mine on the subject.
viewtopic.php?p=1290759&hilit=Steak#p1290759
Mick F. Cornwall
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Mick F
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by Mick F »

Mick F. Cornwall
rjb
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by rjb »

Mick F wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 6:43pm

No hammering, no nothing.
Just buy a ball-ring spanner and eat the contents of the "correct" tin first.

I've not seen Spinach in a tin like that. :lol:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
hoogerbooger
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by hoogerbooger »

Yes, £35 for a spanner that fits some but not all/the older ball rings. That's why I was thankful for Brucey's knowledge and advice.
old fangled
rogerzilla
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by rogerzilla »

The square-dog spanner for older hubs is unobtainable, and has been for years. Even the correct spanner usually needs a mallet on the end of it.

I have often unscrewed them from loose hubs.
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Mick F
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by Mick F »

The correct spanner does not need any mallet. Just a method of holding the spanner firmly and horizontally.
Grip the wheel, and turn it anticlockwise. The bigger the wheel, the easier it is.

Mine is in a 20" wheel and needs quite a firm grasp, but it comes out no problems.
Mick F. Cornwall
Carlton green
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by Carlton green »

rogerzilla wrote: 29 Sep 2022, 7:49am The square-dog spanner for older hubs is unobtainable, and has been for years. Even the correct spanner usually needs a mallet on the end of it.

I have often unscrewed them from loose hubs.
How do you hold (and grip) loose hubs?

Mallets work for some people and some situations, my preference is to use a long piece of pipe over the end of the ‘spanner’.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
rogerzilla
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by rogerzilla »

I just grip them between my knees. This only works when you're using impact to unscrew the ball ring.

There are some SA hubs that don't screw themselves tight because they work differently. The S3X, for instance - an otherwise most unsatisfactory hub.
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simonineaston
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by simonineaston »

I made a tool - really rough and ready, but it worked! - out of an old shelf and some filed-down bolts. It fitted the ball-race on my SA 8 speed, but the principle's the same. Cost: 10 pence, maybe. Now, my point is that if I can do it, anybody can!
piccie of home-made tool
piccie of home-made tool
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
rjb
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by rjb »

Well done there. The simplest solutions are the best. One for Cugels tool box. viewtopic.php?t=153141. :lol:
I've alway managed with a hammer 🔨 and drift. :wink:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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Mick F
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by Mick F »

Simon, that's brilliant! :D

Hole in it so you can screw it tight to hold it on by using the wheel nut.
Mick F. Cornwall
hoogerbooger
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by hoogerbooger »

(MickF: don't read the below)

I Remembered this thread this morning after having a two day battle with a 1939 AW ballring.

I had used a 6 inch nail as the punch (springy and softer than the ball ring) strike at half past 10........then carry on striking for the rest of the day!!

Had soaked with plusgas the previous night......and tried freezing it & then warming with a camping stove.....several times.....but by evening still no joy.

As a last resort, passed my bedtime, last night I put it in the oven at 150 degrees for 5mins or so.......then juggled the hot potato with gloves to the garage and tried a last time.....to no avail. So I decide to give up.

This morning I remembered this thread......and thought may be it wasn't on a soft enough surface and the screw on sprocket teeth were bottoming on the bench........so I got the hub out the box ......and the ball ring just easily unscrewed by hand.........MAGIC

So my new technique is give up and put it in a box for a while !
Last edited by hoogerbooger on 8 Feb 2024, 7:01pm, edited 2 times in total.
old fangled
Carlton green
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Re: Undoing SA AW ball ring

Post by Carlton green »

I wonder what made the difference. My suspicion is that the heating in the oven worked but not quite in the way anticipated. Perhaps the heat allowed something in the threaded joint to shift and perhaps, on removal from the oven, the body cooled quicker than the ball ring (so, by contraction, the grip would be temporarily increased).

Sometimes you have to persevere, but what does persevere mean. If at first you don’t succeed then try, try again; but I find it helpful to try differently. The definition of madness is, I hear, to repeatedly do the same thing and expect a different outcome.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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