Riding position

[thirdcrank]

... That's progress, I guess.

Progress or not, it's the reality facing anybody who wants to go into a typical UK bike shop to get a bike for commuting. The type of bike produced in countless millions on Lenton Boulevard is no longer made here or widely imported, though plenty of the originals seem to survive in places like Norfolk. It seems to me that if a typical modern utility bike is little more than a mountain bike in fancy dress, then it will have a BB height to clear all those rocks and boulders. I wonder what's the typical bottom bracket height on the roadster-style bikes imported from Holland. That may be something to consider for anybody wanting to sit low.

I get the impression that a lot of inexperienced women riders seem to insist on having their saddle too low. Apart from any misconceptions about touching the ground, I suspect that larger frames are often unavailable in "women's bikes."

[Ayesha]

Inexperienced ladies who have the saddle low will develop musculature and soft tissue in the knees accordingly. In a flatland such as Holland at their cycle route speeds travelling a handful of km, it wouldn’t make a big issue.
Only unless the seat was so low the lady could put both heels on the ground while sat on the saddle.
As experience and confidence grows, the seat can be raised up slowly to eventually end up at the most ergonomic distance from the BB. This might take a year, to allow corresponding development of the muscles and knees.

[Vorpal]

Inexperienced ladies who have the saddle low will develop musculature and soft tissue in the knees accordingly. In a flatland such as Holland at their cycle route speeds travelling a handful of km, it wouldn’t make a big issue.
Only unless the seat was so low the lady could put both heels on the ground while sat on the saddle.
As experience and confidence grows, the seat can be raised up slowly to eventually end up at the most ergonomic distance from the BB. This might take a year, to allow corresponding development of the muscles and knees.

And people can also do in their knees riding with the saddle too low.

[pjclinch]

I get the impression that a lot of inexperienced women riders seem to insist on having their saddle too low.

On the one hand, yes, but on the other I 'd say the word "women" in that sentence was entirely redundant!

Back to bikes available these days, at least around here there is an increasing range of Sensible Utility Bikes without sporting pretensions available. Hub gears, mudguards, racks, baskets, even dynohub lighting is increasingly available off-the-shelf. And for what it's worth the bikes I ride most often where I need to come off the saddle to put a foot down are hired sports-free opa/omafiets in NL!

Pete.

[TimP]

This?
http://www.boardmanbikes.com/fi/fi_mx_sport.html

Go to a proper bike shop where the staff ride bikes.
I'm fairly sure that thing will have higher bottom bracket than you ideally want for commuting, where its confidence-inspiring to be able to get a foot down easily, and longer cranks than you need for your leg length.
For commuting, you need something solid and practical, with mudguards and a luggage carrier, not a triple-butted-whizz-bang-marketing-speak-this-is-ideally-performance-tuned-for-females. Its all codswallop.

I dropped into the Halfords in Scunthorpe last year on a Christmas visit back to see family and I have to say I was impressed with the help by one guy there - and I was only looking at saddles. Back in the early days of Halfords when the cycling section was 1/2 a shelf near the back of the shop I would have agreed wholeheartedly with you but if the Scunthorpe store is an average, then they are okay. (In that area there are no really well established large bike shops - as teens we used to either cycle to Lincoln or York for a good bike shop)

[MikeF]

I get the impression that a lot of inexperienced women riders seem to insist on having their saddle too low. Apart from any misconceptions about touching the ground, I suspect that larger frames are often unavailable in "women's bikes."

I get this impression as well. It seems to be noticeable for those that ride on traffic free tracks. I'm sure in nearly all cases the saddle could be raised so I don't think frame size is an issue. I often wonder if the fact that women have much smaller feet than men makes a difference to leg/cycling position.

As one who is no taller than 5'6" I would say "medium" is too large and would be for a man of average height eg 5'8", so small would be better.

[531colin]

I get the impression that a lot of inexperienced women riders seem to insist on having their saddle too low. Apart from any misconceptions about touching the ground, I suspect that larger frames are often unavailable in "women's bikes."

I get this impression as well. It seems to be noticeable for those that ride on traffic free tracks. I'm sure in nearly all cases the saddle could be raised so I don't think frame size is an issue. I often wonder if the fact that women have much smaller feet than men makes a difference to leg/cycling position.

As one who is no taller than 5'6" I would say "medium" is too large and would be for a man of average height eg 5'8", so small would be better.

Actually, that (uncharacteristically) sexist observation was made by TC, not by me.

As the OP hasn't been back on this thread since August 2014, I don't think there is much point in debating any further.