Cycling UK Forum

I'm considering buying my first bike for commuting. I was looking at the boardman mx sport fi. I tried a medium as I'm 5 ft 6" but the saddle had to be in the lowest position in order for my toes to touch the floor. The guy in halfords said the saddle shouldn't be in the lowest position as it puts pressure on the tube or something, so he said I'd need a small. I'm a bit unsure about the riding position. My thighs were horizontal if not a bit higher with the pedal in its highest position. Is this normal? I've only ridden the boris bikes in recent years so have hot used to that and the riding position was quite different. I'm worried that with a small my knees will come up even higher. They didn't have one to try, they'd have to build one.

Ecs wrote:I tried a medium as I'm 5 ft 6" but the saddle had to be in the lowest position in order for my toes to touch the floor.

Which is usually considered irrelevant, as the key thing is getting you in a 'comfortable / efficient' riding position for whatever you want to do on the bike. As always, Sheldon Brown is as good a place as any to start;)
There have also been several threads on here about bike fit and shorter riders.
HTH
PS: what's 'comfortable' for a pro racer may not suit you for commuting

Ecs wrote:I'm considering buying my first bike for commuting. I was looking at the boardman mx sport fi. I tried a medium as I'm 5 ft 6" but the saddle had to be in the lowest position in order for my toes to touch the floor. The guy in halfords said the saddle shouldn't be in the lowest position as it puts pressure on the tube or something, so he said I'd need a small. I'm a bit unsure about the riding position. My thighs were horizontal if not a bit higher with the pedal in its highest position. Is this normal? I've only ridden the boris bikes in recent years so have hot used to that and the riding position was quite different. I'm worried that with a small my knees will come up even higher. They didn't have one to try, they'd have to build one.

If getting your toes to the ground whilst in the saddle is important to you then it sounds like this frame is too big for you. That said, as frames generally have sloping top tubes, it's not hard to slip forward off the saddle when coming to a stop to put your foot down so it needn't be a deal breaker.

For me the most important seat height issue is being able to almost fully extend my leg at the bottom of the downstroke with my ankle in a normal pedalling position. I can fully straighten my leg if I drop my heel down. I would adjust the saddle to this height and then see how the frame feels for length and try pedalling in and out of the saddle. What feels fine in the saddle may be too short when out so it's worth trying both.

As Squeaker said, Sheldon Brown was seldom wrong about anything bike related.

Tim

Ecs wrote:I'm considering buying my first bike for commuting. I was looking at the boardman mx sport fi.

Er, it's a soft MTB Why would you want to commute on it? IMHO a commuting bike has slick tyres, mudguards and a pannier rack; preferably dynamo lights, and maybe hub gears

Clearly YMMV

Hi,
Touching toes means nothing if you consider that the bottom bracket height from floor will determine whether you can or cant touch

Forget that for a while........... and consider if when you sit on bike saddle (both legs drop to floor) that when your leg is fully extended your heel should just brush (touch) the pedal face when the pedal is furthest from saddle ( pedal crank arm in line with seat tube).
You will need help to hold bike upright for you, the shop can do that for you

This will be within 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch 12 - 20 millimetres, of your ideal full blown seat height, either way up or down.

If then the saddle (saddle clamp bottom) is within 2 inches of frame top tube and the seat pin has almost dissapeared into frame or will go no further, and the nose of saddle is two or so inches off the frame top tube then the frame is too big.

You might start as a novice (no slight intended) and finish as a audax rider (125 mile rides) but you dont want to be getting another bike if you cant get saddle height correct.

This?
http://www.boardmanbikes.com/fi/fi_mx_sport.html

Go to a proper bike shop where the staff ride bikes.
I'm fairly sure that thing will have higher bottom bracket than you ideally want for commuting, where its confidence-inspiring to be able to get a foot down easily, and longer cranks than you need for your leg length.
For commuting, you need something solid and practical, with mudguards and a luggage carrier, not a triple-butted-whizz-bang-marketing-speak-this-is-ideally-performance-tuned-for-females. Its all codswallop.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Do you consider Evans a good bike shop? Or any others in London people can recommend?

I'd say try and forget about being able to touch the ground while you are on the saddle. It's not important and even if you manage it in a showroom, out on the street, if you are a left-foot down person, you may well find that the camber of the road etc., leaves you unable to manage it anyway. Get used to the idea of slipping off the saddle if you want to put a foot down.

The first thing to get right, IMO, is the height of the seat above the pedals. Too high = twinges in the tendons at the back of the knees, too low can lead to knee injury over time as your knees are forced into too acute an angle. The rule-of-thumb is with heelless shoes and your heel on the pedal, your leg should be straight. This dates from the days of heelless cycling shoes, I don't know what you might use now. The rule-of-thumb for the front/back saddle position is that once you have the seat height more or less right, your kneecap should be over the pedal, or a bit in front when the cranks are horizontal.

The other important thing is reach and this tends to be proportionate to frame size on off-the-peg bikes. I couldn't see where the female bit came in but I see it's a women's bike in the link. It's generally accepted, I think, that women have different requirements here because they sit differently. So, before you buy, make sure you are comfortable with the reach. It's possible to alter that with different stem lengths but cheaper before you leave the shop with the new bike, rather than if you go back later.

In addition to the advice on bike fit, I'd suggest trying out a range of bikes, not just those with female specific geometry. I suspect that some stores often steer women to choose these more limiting and, sometimes more expensive, models when there can be less advantage gained if you are over 5ft 5”. I'm 5ft 3” and do own a female spec commuter in an XS frame, complete with mudguards and rack – it's a good bike but my touring bike, which is unisex with an equally small frame, is actually a much better fit. Best to widen your range of choice and test ride as many as you can.

Ecs wrote:Thanks everyone for your replies. Do you consider Evans a good bike shop? Or any others in London people can recommend?

Whereabouts in London are you? There is an Evans near me but I've no experience of them, and I was less than impressed with my local Cycle Surgery a while ago, although I could have just been unlucky with the sales assistant. I use a small independent shop when I need something fixed as they are knowledgeable and charge a fair price. Perhaps have a think about what you'd like from your bike, decide your budget, and then research some recommended models before approaching stockists to try them out? Evans and similar chains tend to stock more sports-orientated bikes and, while some may work as commuters and are often sold as such, they may not have the level of comfort, gear range or carrying capacity that you require. Good luck .

531colin wrote:This?
http://www.boardmanbikes.com/fi/fi_mx_sport.html

Go to a proper bike shop where the staff ride bikes.
I'm fairly sure that thing will have higher bottom bracket than you ideally want for commuting, where its confidence-inspiring to be able to get a foot down easily, and longer cranks than you need for your leg length.
For commuting, you need something solid and practical, with mudguards and a luggage carrier, not a triple-butted-whizz-bang-marketing-speak-this-is-ideally-performance-tuned-for-females. Its all codswallop.

I ride a hardtail MTB to commute. Yes, the BB is designed to be higher, 20mm or so, than a road bike or town bike, but with Conti 28-559 Gatorskins, it is perfick. Yes, it has 175 cranks when I need 170s but I don't feel them.
Cable disks, full MTB mudguards, good lamp set and a good coat with duck oil and its a reliable everyday bike with low maintenance.

Maybe a Raleigh 20 with a good coating with duck oil is what the OP needs??

Ecs wrote:I'm considering buying my first bike for commuting. I was looking at the boardman mx sport fi. I tried a medium as I'm 5 ft 6" but the saddle had to be in the lowest position in order for my toes to touch the floor. The guy in halfords said the saddle shouldn't be in the lowest position as it puts pressure on the tube or something, so he said I'd need a small. I'm a bit unsure about the riding position. My thighs were horizontal if not a bit higher with the pedal in its highest position. Is this normal? I've only ridden the boris bikes in recent years so have hot used to that and the riding position was quite different. I'm worried that with a small my knees will come up even higher. They didn't have one to try, they'd have to build one.

I have an MTB based hybrid, and my toes only just touch the floor. I have to hop down off the saddle when I stop on all of my bikes except the tandem. If your thighs were horizontal with the pedals at their highest, the saddle may have been set too low for you.

I have to admit, it doesn't sound like the guy at the bike shop had half a clue.

The bike you are considering is also not ideal for commuting. The only London shop I know anything about is Station Bicycles http://www.stationbicycles.co.uk/
which carries both new and used bikes. IMO, you could do a lot worse than buying a secondhand bike and trying your commute for a while to see if you like it.

The last time I went bike shopping, I spent a lot of time calling bike shops and asking them some questions before I visited. Unfortunately, many shops don't really cater to women. And most of what you will find available will be hybrids. A hybrid can be a good first bike or commuter, but I think it requires a clear set of criteria to make a good purchase.

Firstly, if you are commuting, will you be doing it it in all weathers? If you will ride in the rain, even occasionally, a set of proper mudguards will save a skunk stripe of gunge up your back.

Secondly, if you are regularly going to carry more than just a puncture kit, you need a way to do so. Some people are okay with a rucksack. I don't like them. They leave my back sweaty, and with enough stuff in them, make my back hurt. If you don't want to carry a rucksack, you will need a saddle bag, rack and panniers, or another way to carry stuff.

How far do you have to go? Do you have any hills? Will you use the bike for anything else (leisure rides? weekly shopping?)?

The other thing you can do is just, try riding some bikes. I mean properly riding them. Not just around the shop in Halfords. So you can tell if they suit your kind of riding. And different types of bikes from different shops.

Ecs wrote:I'm considering buying my first bike for commuting. I was looking at the boardman mx sport fi. I tried a medium as I'm 5 ft 6" but the saddle had to be in the lowest position in order for my toes to touch the floor. The guy in halfords said the saddle shouldn't be in the lowest position as it puts pressure on the tube or something, so he said I'd need a small. I'm a bit unsure about the riding position. My thighs were horizontal if not a bit higher with the pedal in its highest position. Is this normal? I've only ridden the boris bikes in recent years so have hot used to that and the riding position was quite different. I'm worried that with a small my knees will come up even higher. They didn't have one to try, they'd have to build one.

He was probably right at 5ft 6inch is just about on the border between Medium and small in Halford's term. A much better measurement though is your inside leg, crotch to floor not crotch to hem. In London traffic you need to be confident, If you only feel comfortable by being able to get a toe down then that's where you need to be. Whilst I agree with all the sensible comments above relating to mudguards racks etc, what is more important is that you feel comfortable and enjoy the bike.

Up until maybe the fifties the normal choice of bike to get to work on was a 3 speed. These generally had a low bottom bracket so that you could get your foot down without sliding off the saddle.
Now that all bicycles must have sporting pretensions in order to be in any way saleable, everybody is landed with some form of gymnastic exercise in order to simply get a foot down. That's progress, I guess.

531colin wrote:Up until maybe the fifties the normal choice of bike to get to work on was a 3 speed. These generally had a low bottom bracket so that you could get your foot down without sliding off the saddle.
Now that all bicycles must have sporting pretensions in order to be in any way saleable, everybody is landed with some form of gymnastic exercise in order to simply get a foot down. That's progress, I guess.

Not everyone

But then I guess you're right, 'bents are even rarer than proper utility bikes...

Of course, if you pedal "toe down, heel up" all the time, that alone makes far more difference than BB height and crank length......