Youngsters

[TrevA]

So by the time they're 16, they can choose between a bike or a moped and are only one year away from being able to get a car. I wonder why we have an obesity problem.

Just because they aren't riding on the road, doesn't mean they are not riding. A club local to me gets 40 kids turning up at their go-ride sessions and they have probably 20 more on a waiting list. They run at the former National Water Sports Centre that has a traffic-free 3 mile road circuit around the outside of the Rowing course.

[Bicycler]

Yeah but what message does it send out? Roads are dangerous and cycling needs to be done away from them. I'm not against off road cycling but the vast majority of the best riding space we have available to us is on the road network. Removing child cyclists from the roads removes any potential for cycling to be a practical means of transport and significantly limits the potential for even leisure journeys. Our highways and byways are the best free resource we have available, we need to use them.

[MikeF]

Yeah but what message does it send out? Roads are dangerous and cycling needs to be done away from them. I'm not against off road cycling but the vast majority of the best riding space we have available to us is on the road network. Removing child cyclists from the roads removes any potential for cycling to be a practical means of transport and significantly limits the potential for even leisure journeys. Our highways and byways are the best free resource we have available, we need to use them.

+1

I couldn't agree more.

[Mick F]

I don't buy it that the roads are particularly better around us than anywhere else: we have high hedges, blind bends and speeding 4x4s a plenty; the road through our village is supposed to be a 30mph limit but many drivers take no notice and 40mph is common.

+1

Only today I came off Dartmoor down Peek Hill to Yelverton where there's a big roundabout where the Princetown road joins the A386. Nice and wide, not too busy, nice and flat and open and good visibility. An excellent safe roundabout.

As I'm going round it (6 o'clock to 3 o'clock) with my hand out to the right, then to the left, I saw a cycling dad and cycling son (aged maybe 11?) taking the footpaths and crossing at least two of the roads. Far be it from me to tell a parent how to bring up their child, but I really felt like stopping and telling him: "Use the road!, that's what it's there for, and it's safer too!"

[TrevA]

Yeah but what message does it send out? Roads are dangerous and cycling needs to be done away from them. I'm not against off road cycling but the vast majority of the best riding space we have available to us is on the road network. Removing child cyclists from the roads removes any potential for cycling to be a practical means of transport and significantly limits the potential for even leisure journeys. Our highways and byways are the best free resource we have available, we need to use them.

I think the philosophy is to teach them how to ride in a safe, off-road environment. Teach them how to control and handle their bike safely, how to observe what's going on around them, how to ride in a group, how to avoid obstacles, how to ride one-handed, etc. When they are competent with all of this and have had a chance to practice, then they can start to move onto the road.

I believe that Bikeability does the early stages off-road and moves onto the road for the more advanced stuff.

I wish we could get some of our adult beginners to do a bit of this sort of prep too. We get people coming out who can barely ride safely and they are then riding a in a fast-moving group with no idea about group riding etiquette. Most do learn over time, but it can make for a few hair raising moments whilst they get up to speed.

The problem wiith adults is that they think they know it all and won't be told.

[Bicycler]

I think the philosophy is to teach them how to ride in a safe, off-road environment. Teach them how to control and handle their bike safely, how to observe what's going on around them, how to ride in a group, how to avoid obstacles, how to ride one-handed, etc. When they are competent with all of this and have had a chance to practice, then they can start to move onto the road.

Well that's fair enough. The impression I got from earlier posts was that child groups never made the last step to the road.

My understanding of Bikeability is that level 1 focuses on bike control and that takes place away from roads. Levels 2 and 3 take place on roads. I can understand the idea of learning bike control away from busy roads but we're talking weeks or maybe a couple of months here, not all the years until the child has reached adulthood.

[TrevA]

BC doesn't allow you to do "coaching" in an on-road environment, but there's no reason why you can't have Led rides for kids.

[Ben@Forest]

Though it's a bit OT this survey:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/statistics/dacota/bfs2010_dacota-swov-1-3-cyclists.pdf

shows that in actual fact the numbers and proportion of cyclists killed between 1999 and 2008 in the UK compares favourably with France and Italy, countries with comparable populations. Of course the big statistic missing is how many miles are ridden vs cyclists killed but from what I know/what I've been told both France and Italy do not do a lot of commuting or recreational cycling other than sports cycling.

This is certainly borne out by my experience of touring in France which I've done quite extensively, if I see some sweating, be-luggaged person toiling towards me (or maybe who I'm slowly gaining on) I can bet they will be British (usually English to boot), German or Dutch. So (completing my theory) I would guess a lot of those killed in France or Italy are sports cyclists - probably an activity that is more dangerous there than here.

And did I mention the only time I've been knocked off by a car was in France...?

[RickH]

British Cycling in their Skyride guise are OK with children on the road (accompanied by an adult if they are under 16) on their local rides (& the big city centre ones too for that matter but they are closed road events) - 8+ on the "Steady" ones (up to 20 miles , avoiding busy roads as much as possible) & 11+ on the "Challenging" ones (20-30 miles). There are 30+ mile rides in the pipeline, but I don't know what minimum age limit they will have for those.

Rick.

[keepontriking]

Don't British Cycling support Bikeability in which Level 2 training 10-year olds are taught to ride on the road?