Cycling UK Forum

The really depressing thing is, that article could have been written in 1960 and it would have been as true then, as it is today. Believe me! I remember occasions then, testified to by entries in my mother's diaries which I still keep: "nose-to-tail traffic jam at end of our street, had to go other way, long detour" etc. etc. Of course there were fewer cars then, but there were barely any motorways and far fewer by-passes. So: we built the by-passes*; we built the motorways. And here we are!

*As Mr Prosser so aptly put it: "Whaddya mean? It's a by-pass. You've got to build by-passes."

661-Pete wrote:The really depressing thing is, that article could have been written in 1960

Very true but for it to appear in the Torygraph is a major step forward. More than that, I looked at the comments (I know I shouldn't, neither on the Mail nor Telegraph) but surprisingly for the most part they agree.

I believe there is hope.

It is good to occasionally be reminded that the situation is not beyond hope

Doesn't seem to be a problem round here. I drive to work at 6:30am on traffic free roads in 30m. I return any time between 4pm and 7pm. Typically in 45m. An extra 15m is hardly a disaster. Maybe the over concentration of business, govt, finance, broadcasting etc in one city is the problem. Other countries are not as over concentrated in one place.

If you haven't already done so, and if you can stomach a really gut-churning dystopia, I can strongly recommend reading Ben Elton's Gridlock. Although written over 20 years ago, very true to today's situation. I believe there was a dramatised version of it but I can't find any details. Anyway, it explains a lot .

irc wrote:Doesn't seem to be a problem round here. I drive to work at 6:30am on traffic free roads in 30m. I return any time between 4pm and 7pm. Typically in 45m. An extra 15m is hardly a disaster. Maybe the over concentration of business, govt, finance, broadcasting etc in one city is the problem. Other countries are not as over concentrated in one place.

I thought the author had just said England because he was myopic (probably meant London until some example occurred outside). It appears he was saying what he meant and Scotland is OK.
Though I cant see much traffic or gridlock outside my window either.

It did cross my mind that a lot of England is not ruined by motorists but you may have to leave your car to get there.

beardy wrote:It did cross my mind that a lot of England is not ruined by motorists but you may have to leave your car to get there.

Depends on what people mean by ruined.
Not many places left where you can't hear and smell traffic, that doesn't have grey snakes of asphalt cleaving it in two, doesn't have vast amounts of street furniture, car parks, streets full of unsightly metal boxes. And all that before you take into account the affect driving has on the monkeys behind the wheel.

I don't think anyone claiming they can drive no problems at some given time is proof that things are actually 'OK'.

Hmm. He seems to be advocating road charging for cars as you pay a fare for the train etc.

But with the car you just pay a flat rate once a year. Except that's not true is it? The duty paid on fuel far outweighs VED for most people anyway, that in itself is road charging although of course doesn't take into account time and place.

But the main issue is that if cars are charged to use the roads in the form of tolls etc then the calls will become louder for bicycles to be similarly charged.

I also fear he's falling into the typical trap of thinking London represents the entire country. When it's completely atypical.

Im on tour in Portugal at the moment and can't see the link up thread, but as a general observation, if it weren't for cars then there wouldn't be the roads that as a cyclist, I in most parts enjoy. PS - the roads in Portugal are quiet but oh so hilly and just as pot-holed as UK!

bikes4two wrote:Iif it weren't for cars then there wouldn't be the roads that as a cyclist, I in most parts enjoy. PS

I'm not so sure that follows. Roads predate cars, plus the sorts of paths we need would be soooo much cheaper and easier to lay.

Not just England, not just the UK. The area where I live is relatively calm as regards traffic, but if you want to cycle past Paris you're best giving it a 50-mile berth

I don't really like the way he's approaching it. Although he does speak about better infrastructure for alternative transport but i think that should be more the focus.
It all about incentivizing people to make a better choice.
The article mentions the fact of building more roads so more cars fill them, so if they built more cycleways then more people would cycle.
I know many people who just won't get on a bike purely because it's too dangerous because there is no cycleway from A to B.
Parents won't let their kids cycle to school because there are too many cars on the road. Ironically most of them are cars picking up kids from school.

There needs a massive overhaul of the transport system which some of our friends across the water are enjoying.

Cars are a real blot on even quite ordinary landscapes.

Many ordinary residential streets look quite elegant and spacious when totally car free but when they are clogged with parked cars on both sides of the road and often half on the pavement too they look dreadful.