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Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 12:24pm
by reohn2
Psamathe wrote:......... (in my case I can't even always agree with myself).
Phew! I thought it was only me,that's a relief
In life we have to accept different people hold opinions different from ourselves.
Yep,it isn't my fault they're all wrong
Wait a minute if I can't agree with myself........
Discussion about all sorts of things is very important to keeping society running.
Ian
Except politricks and religion
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 4:13pm
by pwa
I've always enjoyed discussing religion. I rarely let the Jehova's Witnesses get away too quickly. Last week I told them that when they say their prayers they are talking to a void, not to God. I regretted it instantly, because it was unkind. But I like talking about religion, unless it is with someone who shares my opinions. I'm the same with politics, really. It's no fun if people agree with me.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 4:19pm
by wearwell
As long as no one mentions the dead pig scenario
Of course we should talk about politics - we live in interesting times, we are not children.
Tedious for forum mods I agree but all they have to do is delete the usual things - mainly personal abuse.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 5:38pm
by reohn2
pwa wrote:I've always enjoyed discussing religion. I rarely let the Jehova's Witnesses get away too quickly. Last week I told them that when they say their prayers they are talking to a void, not to God. I regretted it instantly, because it was unkind. But I like talking about religion, unless it is with someone who shares my opinions. I'm the same with politics, really. It's no fun if people agree with me.
I think the problem is one of faith,nothing can be proven or disproved,so it's not quite straight forward as there's no facts that can be pointed to by either side,only persuasion to faith or not.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 5:39pm
by Bicycler
AlaninWales wrote:On the subject of reductionist thinking
THHG wrote: `I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 6:02pm
by wearwell
reohn2 wrote:pwa wrote:I've always enjoyed discussing religion. I rarely let the Jehova's Witnesses get away too quickly. Last week I told them that when they say their prayers they are talking to a void, not to God. I regretted it instantly, because it was unkind. But I like talking about religion, unless it is with someone who shares my opinions. I'm the same with politics, really. It's no fun if people agree with me.
I think the problem is one of faith,nothing can be proven or disproved,so it's not quite straight forward as there's no facts that can be pointed to by either side,only persuasion to faith or not.
What proof would be required?
The lack of evidence for the supernatural goes a long way to proving it doesn't exist.
The material facts about the growth and subsequent decline of the "mind" in a lifetime, is pretty strong evidence for it's material nature.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 6:28pm
by reohn2
wearwell wrote:What proof would be required?
Non,because it's about belief not proof.
The lack of evidence for the supernatural goes a long way to proving it doesn't exist.
The material facts about the growth and subsequent decline of the "mind" in a lifetime, is pretty strong evidence for it's material nature.
To the believer there's an author who/which is outside of all that,outside of time and space,one and non(at the same time)who made time,the mind,all that is material,and all that isn't.
In It's widest sense It's the All of everything and the space in between.The All and the nothing.
Of course there's a lot of claiming and owning of the true way to unity with,and approval by It.
An outside and an inside a belonging to and rejecting by It.......
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 21 Sep 2015, 7:50pm
by TonyR
I'm rather a fan of Voltaire's quote that "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it". Well up to the death bit that is!
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 9:00am
by AlaninWales
wearwell wrote:What proof would be required?
The lack of evidence for the supernatural goes a long way to proving it doesn't exist.
The material facts about the growth and subsequent decline of the "mind" in a lifetime, is pretty strong evidence for it's material nature.
Not really, that is a (sometimes useful) logical fallacy
http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/54-argument-from-ignorance.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 10:01am
by Vorpal
wearwell wrote:The lack of evidence for the supernatural goes a long way to proving it doesn't exist.
Does it? What do you accept as proof? My aunt receives proof everyday when her prayers are answered.
Do you personally have to experience proof? Or is the evidence of others sufficient? Or do we need some sort of scientific evidence? Then, what is acceptable? There is some evidence that faith (in god, gods, supernatural things) improves mental health and reduces stress. Is that sufficient evidence?
What is the difference between believing and knowing? Between faith and proof? Between evidence that Aunt Bee's prayers were answered and evidence that humankind evolved from ancestral homonids around 200 million years ago.
How much evidence do you need to prove something? Does a theory (like evolution) become proven when most people accept it as fact? What if we find some evidence in the future that changes our view of evolution?
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 4:39pm
by wearwell
Vorpal wrote:.....
What is the difference between believing and knowing? ....
You can choose what you believe but you can't chose what you know.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 8:02pm
by Vorpal
I would argue that there is a limit to what you can choose (or not choose) to believe, based in culture. Someone who growsn up in a Christian culture is unlikely to believe in Hindu gods and vice versa. People can educate themselves about other cultures and religions, and a very few convert to another faith, but we are influenced by things we learn about religion growing up. It is easier to reject one's own faith than to adopt another.
As for knowing? People can as easily choose what they know, as what they believe. Maybe even more easily. They need only ignore arguments to the contrary.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 8:37pm
by TonyR
wearwell wrote:Vorpal wrote:.....
What is the difference between believing and knowing? ....
You can choose what you believe but you can't chose what you know.
Know or believe you know given that what you "know" is a result of a not-understood process whereby electrical impulses are interpreted by something called consciousness into what is believed to be an accurate representation of some absolute reality?
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 10:08pm
by belgiangoth
You can't ignore politics, so you should talk about it.
However you should not expect to change someone's mind in a forum chat, no matter the superiority of your argument.
Most people either vote based on family tradition (like following a football club), and apparently 70% of the remainder vote on basis of looks.
Re: Should we discuss politics on this forum?
Posted: 23 Sep 2015, 8:31am
by 661-Pete
belgiangoth wrote:However you should not expect to change someone's mind in a forum chat, no matter the superiority of your argument.
Quite right. What happens on a political thread, is that people
challenge each other's views.
Forummers react very differently to a robust challenge. Some simply retreat. Others are spurred on to becoming even more didactic, more argumentative. A few take it ill, and cry 'foul'.
I think I'm mostly in the 'retreating' category. Though I do not bear personal abuse well. Luckily that's not so common in this place.