Component packaging

[foxyrider]

Tis true, but there is biodegradable plastic out there. Also, often things are in plastic inside cardboard inside plastic, and then put into a plastic bag, or if delivered wrapped in bubble wrap and polystyrene and then in another box, usually with an A5 document sleeve on the outside also.

Guess I am just so used to mega excessive plastic wrap from the supermarkets every time I buy veg. I went between 3 supermarkets yesterday (not out of route, so not inconvenient/wasted fuel (in car)) due to certain products in unnecessary packaging that I knew I could get unwrapped elsewhere.

In some German supermarkets they have in store facilities to dump the extra packaging before you go home!

[mrjemm]

Only useful if it makes a point to those that put it in the packaging in the 1st place, and causes them to reduce it. The German discount sellers are some of the worst for over-packaging of deliveries. But being a weak-willed human, I will continue to use them when I can afford to buy bike bits again... to my shame.

[pete75]

If the parts are packaged well enough for transport that all that matters isn't it?

That rather depends whether or not you are a small trader whose business is being wrecked because the public can buy "grey imports" at about the price you can buy retail packaged goods from the wholesaler.

For many people money isn't easily come by. They don't owe any small trader a living so why should they spend more than necessary to pay for a supply chain where parts pass through several hands, each taking a profit and adding little if any value. Don't mind paying a bit of a premium to a local shop when they've got the item in stock and available but they're taking the p.... when they say they have to order the part in and quote not only a higher a price but also a much longer delivery time than an online retailer.

[andrewk]

retail vs oem..

Yes i think you are right.

Or what some folk call "grey imports" i think.

In a different market sector i well remember some marketing manager ranting to me about grey imports.

But when i asked him if the bits were genuine and the same quality stuff he went kind of quiet.

For grey imports are of course just perfectly reasonable folks finding ways round their price-fixing/differential pricing.

Not grey imports but OEM - sold in bulk without retail packaging to bicycle manufacturers. Some end up on the retail market, thank goodness.

[[XAP]Bob]

If the parts are packaged well enough for transport that all that matters isn't it?

That rather depends whether or not you are a small trader whose business is being wrecked because the public can buy "grey imports" at about the price you can buy retail packaged goods from the wholesaler.

For many people money isn't easily come by. They don't owe any small trader a living so why should they spend more than necessary to pay for a supply chain where parts pass through several hands, each taking a profit and adding little if any value. Don't mind paying a bit of a premium to a local shop when they've got the item in stock and available but they're taking the p.... when they say they have to order the part in and quote not only a higher a price but also a much longer delivery time than an online retailer.

Absolutely.

I'll pay 9 rather than 5 for a chain, but I win't pay £25...

That was Halfords vs online vs lbs...

[andrewk]

The current LBS business model is probably unsustainable, why would one wish to pay significantly more for parts or accessories and wait longer for delivery? If LBSs are to survive they will have to change. Perhaps placing more reliance on servicing and repairs and sale of items that one has to try for size eg. clothing and bikes.
Those that modify their business model might still be with us in a decade or so, those that spend their time decrying online shopping won't.

[fastpedaller]

The current LBS business model is probably unsustainable, why would one wish to pay significantly more for parts or accessories and wait longer for delivery? If LBSs are to survive they will have to change. Perhaps placing more reliance on servicing and repairs and sale of items that one has to try for size eg. clothing and bikes.
Those that modify their business model might still be with us in a decade or so, those that spend their time decrying online shopping won't.

But isn't it true to say the LBS is being put in an untenable position? If the price from their supplier is more than the retail from an online shop, then their best (only) actions are to either not stock the item, or buy the part online and sell on to the customer for whatever they are able. I have to do similarly in my business, but it's true to say that most of my turnover is the labour element of the work rather than material/parts - If I relied on parts mark-up alone I would go broke very quickly.

[mike_dowler]

But isn't it true to say the LBS is being put in an untenable position? If the price from their supplier is more than the retail from an online shop, then their best (only) actions are to either not stock the item, or buy the part online and sell on to the customer for whatever they are able.

Not stocking the item is not a solution - greater choice is one of the factors pushing buyers towards online in the first place. LBSs need to trade on their USP - the fact that you can get face to face advice. Many LBSs are not known for their customer service, sadly.

[pete75]

But isn't it true to say the LBS is being put in an untenable position? If the price from their supplier is more than the retail from an online shop, then their best (only) actions are to either not stock the item, or buy the part online and sell on to the customer for whatever they are able.

Not stocking the item is not a solution - greater choice is one of the factors pushing buyers towards online in the first place. LBSs need to trade on their USP - the fact that you can get face to face advice. Many LBSs are not known for their customer service, sadly.

Yep. They need to provide good customer service and add value to what they sell. Some don't do themselves any favours by having policies which turn away trade like only mending or servicing bikes they've sold. Several people at work have been told this by a couple of LBS and not in a pleasant manner either. All it does is lose them a potential customer forever.
If more and more people are buying bikes on line a wise LBS should realise they can still make money by doing what the on line retailer can't, service and repair work and not turn that custom away because they resent how the machine was purchased.

[reohn2]

Yep. They need to provide good customer service and add value to what they sell. Some don't do themselves any favours by having policies which turn away trade like only mending or servicing bikes they've sold. Several people at work have been told this by a couple of LBS and not in a pleasant manner either. All it does is lose them a potential customer forever.
If more and more people are buying bikes on line a wise LBS should realise they can still make money by doing what the on line retailer can't, service and repair work and not turn that custom away because they resent how the machine was purchased.

I agree,but my LBS has told me stories of people buy al the parts and frame on line and then approaching him to build the bike Err,there's only so much latitude and that's well beyond it IMHO.
Back to packaging,if cartels weren't able to operate the playing field would be level.That would have to involve big business being stopped from buying politrickians...........



EDIT:-If you're in any doubt as to what big business is trying to do read this:- http://aftinet.org.au/cms/node/519
Whilst the Austalian high court has ruled against Philip Morris Tobacco Co,the case isn't won yet.
Captialism at it's nastiest.

[pete75]

Yep. They need to provide good customer service and add value to what they sell. Some don't do themselves any favours by having policies which turn away trade like only mending or servicing bikes they've sold. Several people at work have been told this by a couple of LBS and not in a pleasant manner either. All it does is lose them a potential customer forever.
If more and more people are buying bikes on line a wise LBS should realise they can still make money by doing what the on line retailer can't, service and repair work and not turn that custom away because they resent how the machine was purchased.

I agree,but my LBS has told me stories of people buy al the parts and frame on line and then approaching him to build the bike Err,there's only so much latitude and that's well beyond it IMHO.
Back to packaging,if cartels weren't able to operate the playing field would be level.That would have to involve big business being stopped from buying politrickians...........

If he can afford to turn away business that's all well and good. If he's doing it out of a sense of pique and then having idle workshop time the man's a fool.

They did have a so called level playing field years ago. It was called retail price maintenance. Suppliers could force all retailers to sell their goods at a fixed price. This was made illegal sometime in the sixties. Good for businesses bad for for consumers. The only way we get any advantage out of the capitalist system is if the buggers have to compete for our custom.

Is there any evidence of cartels operating in the cycle business?

[reohn2]

If he can afford to turn away business that's all well and good. If he's doing it out of a sense of pique and then having idle workshop time the man's a fool.

He's far from a fool just a hard working one man(and wife)band,who because of his reputation,competitive prices and good workmanship doesn't need that kind of custom and also feels people sometime are trying to extract the piddle by such requests.

Is there any evidence of cartels operating in the cycle business?

I think that's what Colin was implying up thread.

[Postboxer]

Maybe the way forward for LBS's is to either form co-operatives together to increase their purchasing power or to somehow go in league with the online retailers, so they have a brand.

On the subject of packaging, I'm amazed more isn't being done to reduce it, councils and government seem to be tackling the issue of recycling from the wrong end - fortnightly bin collections to increase recycling etc, they should be looking at what all the rubbish is and encouraging alternatives, encouraging packaging to be all one material to make sorting it in the home easier. They could start with just working their way through the shelves of a supermarket and contact the producers of anything over packaged.

[pete75]

Is there any evidence of cartels operating in the cycle business?

I think that's what Colin was implying up thread.

No he was talking about so called grey imports undercutting prices of components obtained via the official importer. If anything it's the opposite of a cartel which is an organisation or association between suppliers to keep prices up.

[reohn2]

........On the subject of packaging, I'm amazed more isn't being done to reduce it, councils and government seem to be tackling the issue of recycling from the wrong end - fortnightly bin collections to increase recycling etc, they should be looking at what all the rubbish is and encouraging alternatives, encouraging packaging to be all one material to make sorting it in the home easier. They could start with just working their way through the shelves of a supermarket and contact the producers of anything over packaged.

The government could make laws against needless packaging that uses to much,one wonders why they don't ........ ....I have my own suspicions as to why,the same as I did when 24/7 drinking laws were introduced,on the excuse that with more time to drink people would somehow pace themselves or actually drink less
Since then we have a developed a drinking culture bordering on the maniacal.

The Scandinavian countries laws on packaging tend to be very strict and as I've said before on here refundable glass bottles with no cans or plastics allowed would cut waste and litter by a fair old percentage,in the same way stopping free plastic carrier bags does.
The no will to do these things when our politrickians are sitting on the boards(in a consultative capacity you understand)of multinational companies responsible for the the same packaging among other things such as pollution of other sorts,drugs companies getting people hooked on their products instead of healing them,oil companies raping Africa and literally getting away with murder,etc,etc.