Advance stop line being ignored

[Flinders]

Mr Ortho has an AS box on his route to work. The traffic queues so close to the kerb (right over a ridiculously short 'cycle lane') he can't get into it. As he needs to turn R,

Hang on, if he is turning right then he shouldn't under any circumstance whatsoever be attempting to filter on the left - whether or not there is a cycle lane.

he has to manouvre across the traffic to take the right lane.

If the right lane is a dedicated right turn then it will usually be safe to filter between the traffic lanes. That way, even it the lights change just as you are approaching the junction you are between diverging traffic streams rather risking getting hooked.

I had thought that the whole point of putting in a special dedicated lane to the left of the traffic before an AS box was to allow cyclists to get into it, whether they were turning right or left or going straight on. Silly old me, eh?
The road approaching the box is no fun to be crossing lanes in, it is a short section just after a three/four lane roundabout.

[Vorpal]

Mr Ortho has an AS box on his route to work. The traffic queues so close to the kerb (right over a ridiculously short 'cycle lane') he can't get into it. As he needs to turn R,

Hang on, if he is turning right then he shouldn't under any circumstance whatsoever be attempting to filter on the left - whether or not there is a cycle lane.

he has to manouvre across the traffic to take the right lane.

If the right lane is a dedicated right turn then it will usually be safe to filter between the traffic lanes. That way, even it the lights change just as you are approaching the junction you are between diverging traffic streams rather risking getting hooked.

I had thought that the whole point of putting in a special dedicated lane to the left of the traffic before an AS box was to allow cyclists to get into it, whether they were turning right or left or going straight on. Silly old me, eh?
The road approaching the box is no fun to be crossing lanes in, it is a short section just after a three/four lane roundabout.

IMO, the law should be changed to allow a cyclist to enter the ASL (on a red light) from any lane. That would allow cyclists who are planning right turn, or filtering on the outside to enter an ASL safely and legally.

[Pete Owens]

I think that is being proposed in the changes to the regulations going through at the moment.

However, I don't think it is an issue we should worry about. In practical tems, the sprit of the law means that the purpose of the ASL is understood as a place that cyclists are allowed to enter on red - even if a strict application of the letter of the law we are only allowed to crossenter via designated breaks in the stop line. I am confident that in the extrodinarily unlikely circumstance that a malicious policeman (a) actually knows the exact nature of the regulation AND (b) decides to prosecute a cyclist for entering the box from the wrong direction the the CPS would refuse to prosecute.

[drossall]

I'm learning something here. With many other cyclists, I use the ASL where Upper Street meets the Pentonville Road at Angel.

Traffic often makes approaching on the left difficult, but the timing of the lights after the previous set, where we all turned out of Liverpool Road, means that we can go down the right with plenty of margin to get into the ASL. It hadn't occurred to me that we weren't supposed to enter anywhere but on the left.

[Flinders]

AFAIk you can enter the box on a bike from any lane, can you not? But if there is a special short lane on the left, I'd assume it was there for not only those turning left and straight on, but cyclists turning right, so they could get access to the box to cross the lanes in safety when the lights were red. I had sort of thought that part of the whole point was that it was designed for cyclists who couldn't cross the lanes, because they found it either impossible (as it can be in heavy but fast traffic or when the design of the other lanes makes it dangerous, or whatever) or too intimidating.

[[XAP]Bob]

AFAIk you can enter the box on a bike from any lane, can you not? But if there is a special short lane on the left, I'd assume it was there for not only those turning left and straight on, but cyclists turning right, so they could get access to the box to cross the lanes in safety when the lights were red. I had sort of thought that part of the whole point was that it was designed for cyclists who couldn't cross the lanes, because they found it either impossible (as it can be in heavy but fast traffic or when the design of the other lanes makes it dangerous, or whatever) or too intimidating.

No - you can only access it from the designated cycle lane - where the first stop line won't exist. Crossing the first stop line is verbotten

[Vorpal]

AFAIk you can enter the box on a bike from any lane, can you not?

It is not legal to cross the stop line when the light is red. That's the reason for the filter lanes going to ASLs.

[dakari-mane]

It is not legal to cross the stop line when the light is red. That's the reason for the fatal lanes going to ASLs.

You had a bit wrong. I dun gone fixed it for you.

Anything that directs cyclists up the left of HGVs & busses at a left turning junction is just plain wrong. Better to approach between the lanes & ignore the ASL altogether.

[Postboxer]

Have more cameras, then have the fine high enough to pay for two cameras, problem solved.

[basingstoke123]

It is not legal to cross the stop line when the light is red. That's the reason for the fatal lanes going to ASLs.

You had a bit wrong. I dun gone fixed it for you.

Anything that directs cyclists up the left of HGVs & busses at a left turning junction is just plain wrong. Better to approach between the lanes & ignore the ASL altogether.

I know of at least one ASL box that is safe in this regard. It has no filter lane. Which begs the question - what's its purpose?

[Bicycler]

It should have a dashed section of stop line which cyclists are permitted to cross. It'll usually be the same up the inside of big vehicles route you get with a filter lane.

[kwackers]

It should have a dashed section of stop line which cyclists are permitted to cross. It'll usually be the same up the inside of big vehicles route you get with a filter lane.

I know of a number with no filter lane.

TBH why do we get hung up on the filter lane anyway? I think it's just a fudge to show that bicycles can legally enter the box rather than intended as the actual mechanism for doing so.
It's not like there'd *ever* be a case where a cyclist was prosecuted for passing the first line.

[661-Pete]

Interesting development on my patch: I've just noticed that an ASL, which I often cross, has been painted out.
Before:

After:

They re-surfaced that stretch of road last week and have just re-whitelined it, evidently they left out the rather faded ASL markings. I'm not sure whether they plan to reinstate them later, but if so, don't the contractors usually leave marks on the road showing where the lines are meant to go? I couldn't find any.
For what it's worth, I always though that particular ASL was of little or no value to cyclists. There is a bit of shared-pavement infrastructure to the right of the junction (you can see a cyclist using it in my piccy, but I don't bother).
To me, this erasure seems like no bad thing. Any thoughts?

[Bicycler]

It should have a dashed section of stop line which cyclists are permitted to cross. It'll usually be the same up the inside of big vehicles route you get with a filter lane.

I know of a number with no filter lane.

but it should have a dashed line section of line to the left (ie. where the filter would be if it had one)

TBH why do we get hung up on the filter lane anyway? I think it's just a fudge to show that bicycles can legally enter the box rather than intended as the actual mechanism for doing so.

If they had wanted cyclists to be permitted to cross the stop line it would have required an extra sentence when drafting the legislation. I find it highly unlikely that this wasn't considered. It is always problematic making assumptions that legal oddities are omissions.

[kwackers]

but it should have a dashed line section of line to the left (ie. where the filter would be if it had one)

Nope. I can assure you there aren't.

If they had wanted cyclists to be permitted to cross the stop line it would have required an extra sentence when drafting the legislation. I find it highly unlikely that this wasn't considered. It is always problematic making assumptions that legal oddities are omissions.

I think you presume too much.
Why on earth would you insist on making cyclists enter the box from the left? For your statement to make sense there must be a good reason why you'd want that to be the case rather than allowing them to enter from anywhere.
Since there is no good reason I'd suggest the issue is the traffic light and the solid white line. The dotted line was simply seen as an easy fudge.

Make no mistake, it IS a fudge.