Is it just me?

[mrjemm]

This, to me, ties in with the 'everything black' thread- it's all marketing and fashion.

Courtesy of a bike fit while I was away, Mme's fancy bike has oversize bars, while everything else is non OS, but being the fancy bike, it is a colour co-ordinated, i.e. Silver components please... Courtesy of said bike fit being a bit pants, a shorter stem is required. What a nightmare. Got one now, but not super short, and it was a case of very limited choice. And then there is myself, wanting to replace the bars on one bike with some Woodchippers, or even some other Salsa bars with a bit of flare like I have on the other. But annoyingly, Salsa have gone and stopped doing non OS in the Woodchippers and the other ones I'd consider. I don't want OS, I think it's ugly, it'll probably mean buying different top levers also. Grrr.

I am sure I could come up with more examples, and of course I could rant away the day, but jobs to do and all that... In the meantime, I am with R2 on this. Damn those marketing men and the lords of consumerism.

[beardy]

If you have a smaller front crankset say 48 or less on the big ring then the 11 tooth can get used enough to warrant its existence. It will however not be used so much that it causes problems through its not optimal small size.

Nice for those down hill with a tail wind occasions.

[mig]

for this reason i tend to gravitate towards one of two old fixed gear bikes for routine rides and commuting. the geared stuff only comes out to play on warm summer days now. i dread to think what the costs would be if i needed to find a part for one of those - campagnolo 8 and 9 speed groupsets.
but yes....i do tend to buy a few fixed chains / sprockets at a time even though i doubt that the world will run dry of 1/8th chains

[reohn2]

... I'd really like to be able to buy a 14-34 but such a combination doesn't seem to be available.

I does if you're crafty enough.
Buy a 9sp Tiagra HG50 14-25(CRC £10)and a 9sp Deore HG50 11-34 (CRC £10) split them by punching the rivets out from the smaller cog side,rebuild with desired ratios from the two cassettes.

[Brucey]

there is nearly always a 'race to the bottom' with any product or technology that becomes established and commoditised. It is the way of things in our (mad) World.

The other side of the coin is our reaction to it. As usual, someone else has already said it better than I ever could;

“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”

from The Salmon of Doubt

So after a certain point (which is as much a state of mind as it is clicks on the odometer, I suspect) one is pretty much honour-bound to consider a good proportion of 'new stuff' as unnecessary, pointless, and a step backwards in some or all respects.

BTW it doesn't make you 'wrong' when you make a cogent argument in support of your POV, which after all will be informed by more experience than mere youth can muster, but it does run the danger that others (who instinctively equate 'change' and 'progress') may dismiss you as a reactionary old so-and-so; (or should I say 'grumpy old man' in modern parlance..? ). I should know, I'm rapidly becoming one too....

cheers

[MartinC]

Yes, but I'm starting to worry about my tendency to do this.

Don't,it's what marketing men want you to do.
2x10 is less than 3x8,marketing men would have you believe otherwise but the numbers don't lie

Yeah, but you started buying 3x8 transnissions when they were the height of fashion! We'll only believe your immunity to fashion if you start using SA3 hubs.

Anyway your religious observance prevents you from even using all of the (less than 24) non duplicate ratios in a 3x8 because the prophets Chainwrap and Crossover have declared them non kosher. The marketing men have got you to believe that 3x8=24.

[reohn2]

If you have a smaller front crankset say 48 or less on the big ring then the 11 tooth can get used enough to warrant its existence. It will however not be used so much that it causes problems through its not optimal small size.

Nice for those down hill with a tail wind occasions.

In your world maybe,46x14 is big enough for me.I can spin that gear upto 30mph+(generous tailwind of course),and only yesterday spun a 46x17 upto 25mph(unassisted but only briefly),most have been about 120+rpm
Fast descents are fast because they're steep in R2 world

[MartinC]

My biggest problem with an 11 tooth sprocket is that, whatever chainring size I'm using I'd want an 11.5 tooth sprocket between it and the 12. 11 to 13 is an abomination.

As Colin said in threads passim an 11 tooth sprocket is just a spacer really.

[ANTONISH]

... I'd really like to be able to buy a 14-34 but such a combination doesn't seem to be available.

I does if you're crafty enough.
Buy a 9sp Tiagra HG50 14-25(CRC £10)and a 9sp Deore HG50 11-34 (CRC £10) split them by punching the rivets out from the smaller cog side,rebuild with desired ratios from the two cassettes.

I have done such a thing in the past (in fact I have a large number of spare sprockets) but all the better quality cassettes are mounted on "spiders".
I would just like to buy a new cassette with reasonable ratios.

[reohn2]

.........grumpy old man... .... I should know, I'm rapidly becoming one too....

cheers

What do you mean 'becoming'

[beardy]

Any self respecting top speed chaser needs something that can operate in the 40-50mph band.
Reohn
Your spinning in the 46/17 gear would see you doing just 39mph with an 11 instead. You really, really, really need higher gears.
Obviously not for the whole ride but for those occasions when opportunity arises which are more common the hillier the ride.

[reohn2]

........ The marketing men have got you to believe that 3x8=24.

When really it's only 22 due to the one overlap

The perfect numbers of the universe 3x8(which)=22,alls well that gets you to the top of the pile,err I mean hill *



*if the hill's green and far away(more religion)all the better

[reohn2]

... I'd really like to be able to buy a 14-34 but such a combination doesn't seem to be available.

I does if you're crafty enough.
Buy a 9sp Tiagra HG50 14-25(CRC £10)and a 9sp Deore HG50 11-34 (CRC £10) split them by punching the rivets out from the smaller cog side,rebuild with desired ratios from the two cassettes.

I have done such a thing in the past (in fact I have a large number of spare sprockets) but all the better quality cassettes are mounted on "spiders".
I would just like to buy a new cassette with reasonable ratios.

Psst,I'll tell you a seekrit,whispers they're no better just a leettle lighter that's all

[reohn2]

Any self respecting top speed chaser needs something that can operate in the 40-50mph band.
Reohn
Your spinning in the 46/17 gear would see you doing just 39mph with an 11 instead. You really, really, really need higher gears.
Obviously not for the whole ride but for those occasions when opportunity arises which are more common the hillier the ride.

Nooo, the hillier the ride the lower the gear I need,and on the descents I need a rest

[[XAP]Bob]

if 3*8 is enough then I must be mad - 3*9*3.

I know full well that there are many, many duplicated ranges in there, I treat it more as a 5*9 gear system (yes, 5*9, that how close the two threes are in terms of ratios - it's not strictly true, but it's a close enough approximation)

Oh, and because of the peculiarities of my chainline there are no limits on cross chaining - although the chain runs a bit slack in little/little/any.

So I get a decent range, with almost all easily available parts - front chainrings are simple 4 bolt affairs, rear cassette is a standard 9 speed block, hub is a SA 3 speed, albeit with MTB front gear pull.

My reasoning:
I get to change gear at a standstill (useful on a 'bent trike).
I couldn't afford a Rolhoff (or Alfie11), or a Schlumpf HSD, (or both, preferably).
My replacement cassettes are <£15 rather than £75 for the standard capreo (only takes a couple of those to pay for the hub).
I get the range that the capreo cassette gave me, and slightly more (particularly at the bottom end).

Why is this probably wrong:
I seem to spend most of my time in the large chainring up front and the direct drive on the hub...


On an upwrong the story is different. Having ridden a 3 speed brompton around for a while I realised that most gears were superfluous. I therefore got myself a nice old hub geared bike, and that has a 5 speed SA hub. It's got enough range that I am as fast on it (ok, it's not exactly got the comfort or convenience of my trike - no mudguards, dynamo, rack, headrest...) as I am on the trike.
It's quite happy to be ridden gently as well (which is a lovely feeling, and one we should all embrace more)