THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

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penguin
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Joined: 21 Dec 2014, 4:36pm

THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby penguin » 21 Dec 2014, 4:52pm

I am renovating a 1949 Rudge. I have noticed that some old cycles have the bottom 9 inches or so of the rear mudguard painted white, around the rear reflector. Can any body tell me whether this was a legal requirement and what period it applied to? Thanks

Ugly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2009, 8:34am

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby Ugly » 21 Dec 2014, 4:59pm

I think it was part of the black-out regulations, 1939-45, also included hodded front and rear lights

Brucey
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Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby Brucey » 21 Dec 2014, 5:07pm

I think the idea may even be older than that. Although there was no legal requirement for this after a certain date, it was common practice to have this even years later. It is still commonplace on bikes sold in the Netherlands to this day.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

tim-b
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby tim-b » 21 Dec 2014, 5:46pm

Hi

This 1930s Sunbeam blog suggests wartime use

And here's a poster complete with CTC logo

Nothing to do with bikes, but the British Army painted the rear axle diff covers white on their vehicles
In a convoy in the dark they were a bit more visible to the vehicle behind, but not from the air, the flanks, etc
They were certainly doing this up to the early 1980s. I don't know if they do now, probably no need with advances in night-vision equipment

Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

Brucey
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Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby Brucey » 21 Dec 2014, 6:10pm

this page suggests 1934 for the white panel on the mudguard in the UK

https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/visibility-in-context/

I remember an older chap trying to tell me it was still compulsory in 1972; (I checked, and it wasn't!)

There is an interesting comment in the above link re the same thing in the Netherlands, that it remained compulsory from 1935 until 1995. Some things longer on; I have a 1998-built Gazelle, and it still has a white rear mudguard tip.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

penguin
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Joined: 21 Dec 2014, 4:36pm

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby penguin » 21 Dec 2014, 6:19pm

Thanks everybody. I've not been on a forum before and it's great to get such fast responses.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the law specified how much of the mudguard should be whitened, and though people came to ignore the regulation is was actually quite late before the law was repealed. A bit like the use of flashing lights nowadays, the law took a while to catch up with common sense.

penguin
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Joined: 21 Dec 2014, 4:36pm

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby penguin » 21 Dec 2014, 7:17pm

Thanks to Brucey I did more internet research. There is a helpful Hansard site that records who said what over the years.

In summary the 1934 Road Traffic Act required that though 'cyclists using just a red rear reflector were now required to additionally have a white patch on the rear of their bike' but you didn't need a rear light at night. In 1944 it was decided that 'during the hours of darkness a red lamp should be carried by cyclists, in addition to the red reflector on a white patch which is already compulsory'. The Act which followed in 1945, in Clause 2, 'provided that a cyclist must not only carry a red rear light but must carry a red reflector and a white patch as well. This is for greater safety in case the rear light should fail or be obscured without his knowing that it had happened.' It was repealed in 1954 when 'that part of the Road Transport Lighting (Cycles) Act, 1945, which requires pedal cycles and tricycles to have a white surface on their mudguards is to be repealed.' (Wake up at the back there!)

So it looks as though my 1949 Rudge should have had a white patch on the rear mudguard, but I don't know whether by 1949 anybody was taking notice of the law.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby Brucey » 22 Dec 2014, 12:57am

1951 Raleigh catalogue here

http://oldbike.wordpress.com/1951-raleigh-catalogue/

-and several of the bikes clearly have white mudguard tips.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

tim-b
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Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby tim-b » 22 Dec 2014, 5:57am

Hi

But why 1934? We weren't revving up for war at that point.

I did a bit more research and maybe it was because fatalities amongst cyclists had been rising sharply, e.g. from ~900 in 1930 to more than 1500 in 1934

The first cycle path opened in 1934 in Ealing, London. British Pathe news said that the cycle path was “a new safety innovation”
I found this article interesting, and it shows that nothing has changed. Sub-standard cycle provision opposed by the CTC

Apologies for going completely off-piste

Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

mercalia
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Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby mercalia » 22 Dec 2014, 9:05am

i thought it was used before rear reflectors were used? black mudguards dont reflect much light from a cars light

Brucey
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Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby Brucey » 22 Dec 2014, 9:15am

mercalia wrote:i thought it was used before rear reflectors were used? black mudguards dont reflect much light from a cars light


The white panel was introduced after rear reflectors were made compulsory.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mercalia
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Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby mercalia » 22 Dec 2014, 11:00am

Brucey wrote:
mercalia wrote:i thought it was used before rear reflectors were used? black mudguards dont reflect much light from a cars light


The white panel was introduced after rear reflectors were made compulsory.

cheers


very strange

LollyKat
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Location: Scotland

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby LollyKat » 22 Dec 2014, 2:38pm

Remember that the lights on pre-war cars weren't that good, and the reflectors were pretty small. Presumably the authorities thought it worth taking a 'belt and braces' approach.

Bikefayre
Posts: 176
Joined: 1 Dec 2014, 3:36pm

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby Bikefayre » 22 Dec 2014, 3:57pm

From past memory it seem to believe it's a hangover from blackout markings from the war as it was done front and rear on the mudguards in the 'Seventies then the rear until more recently Scotchlite took over to do the same job as the wartime markings. Why no Scotchlite tips on mudguards? Still like to do it as have white Curver [Tupperware] lids front and rear to be seen on my mountain bike. Think another reason it died in the Seventies was white mudguards became common and as a child of the 'Seventies still have a bike with modern white Vavert and Crud mudguards. Some history buff will correct me as to the details, yet are far as I know this is right as was told this when a wee boy in the late 'Seventies.

Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: THE WHITE TIP ON SOME VINTAGE REAR MUDGUARDS

Postby Brucey » 22 Dec 2014, 4:13pm

Bikefayre wrote: Some history buff will correct me as to the details...


you could try reading the links in this thread.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~