Thorn Audax vs Road Bike

[AlastairS]

I have a Dawes Galaxy and although it's a good bike, I feel it is heavy.
I would like a new bike for weekend day runs.
I could keep the Galaxy for winter training and buy a road bike (probably a carbon one) for summer day runs.
Alternatively, I could buy a Thorn Audax Mk3 and use it for my day rides. It has a lifetime guarantee on the frame, not sure how long the carbon frame will last if looked after and no collisions.
Thorn heavier by about 1.5-2kgs
I am 48yrs.
I'd welcome any comments to help me make a decision.
Best wishes for the New year,Alastair

[reohn2]

I think you'll find the Thorn Audax Mk3 will get good recommendations from those that have them,I've had one myself and can only say they're a great bike,comfy for long rides,predictable stable handling.They'll also take a full sized 28mm tyre with ample m/guard clearance,which is more than can be said for most bikes in that class.The frameset is very well built with good durable paint job.
With lightweight kit they weigh around 10kgs.

Another bike that may interest you is Spa's own Audax either Ti or Steel,I've no personal experience but they get good reviews and are a well designed bike.

CF bikes tend to be lighter,with tighter clearances usually for only 25mm tyres with little room form m/guards or rack fittings.
Sunday best bikes with limited scope for all weather riding and carrying anything but the basic get-you-home kit,but if that's what your looking for there's plenty to choose from.

[honesty]

Questions. Do you want mudguards? Do you want to use the bike for carrying any form of luggage?

If yes to either, you are going to be limited with options with a CF bike. Yes you can fit workarounds (crud catchers etc.) but having the mounting points is beneficial. This is where the Thorn has the advantage.

There are other options though depending on budget. Ti framed bikes are almost as light as as carbon framed bike and there are lots that can be found with greater tyre clearance and/or mounting points for full mudguards and racks. Have a look at the Sabbath September AR1 for example, race bike geometry (ish) with clearance for 35mm tyres, mudguards and a rack. Disk brake though, so that may adjust your decision.

I have a Thorn audax which was built up from a frame purchase. My bike is around 11.5kg with the Bagman and barbag mount on it. about 10.5kg without. It could be made lighter by switching out the saddle, post, stem, bars for lighter components (even light ali ones, I have chunky/cheap stuff on it at the moment), but upgrading the drive train would only knock a small amount off at this stage. Its a nice comfy bike that feels reasonably fast. I'm able to keep up with the club riders on their leisure day, and going up the hills is significantly easier for me with my granny ring. It also handles really well both unladen and loaded up with barbag and full Carridice... but I've never tried a full carbon bike to say how it compares. The frame itself also seems a little heavy when compared to other frames in the same segment. This gives me greater confidence when carrying luggage, but it's about .3 - .4kg more than say a Spa steel audax.

I should also mention that the fork you get with the frame is a 1kg one with mountings for a front rack. its a good fork for light touring, but if you are never going to need those mounting points you may want to swap out the fork. The carbon one Thorn can supply is about .5kg lighter but only has clearance for 25mm tyres and mudguards, or the other option (which is the one I currently have) is the Thorn 853 fork. Its about .3kg lighter than the regular fork, comfy as anything, can fit a 28mm tyre and guards, and bloody expensive. It is colour matching though!

[FarOeuf]

if you're thinking of a light Thorn Audax then I'd suggest the 'frameset and self-build' is the way to go. Thorn 'complete bikes' are built with low-spec components (compared to other similarly priced bikes), and there's quite a lot you can do to save weight by swapping things. My Club Tour is now 12kg, but the only Thorn supplied parts left are the frame and seat post. Second-hand Audax bikes come up for sale quite often (on the Thorn forum mainly), and you might be able to bag yourself a good deal and have some cash left over for upgrades.

[pwa]

I ride two bikes. The winter / local rides bike is a tourer (Thorn Club Tour). My bike for Audax and long days in the saddle is a Spa Titanium Audax frame with my own mix of kit. The Audax bike is still practical with mudguards, rack, etc but it rolls along a lot easier than the tourer. So it is definitely work having an audax style bike for swifter riding. Thorns are good but possibly over-priced. Spa are cheaper but possibly not quite as well finished. I'm happy with my Spa, but I would specify the lowest gears available (I'm 54 and fit rather than athletic).

[robc02]

It might be worth considering a Kinesis T2 or 4S (the latter formerly known as Tk or Tk2 and is a lighter version of the T2). They are both aluminium frames with carbon fibre forks and have road bike geometry but with extra brake clearance and chainstay length to accommodate 28mm tyres and mudguards (proper clearance!!). Both have seatstay bosses for rear rack, but only one set of eyes on the rear dropouts. Weightwise they fall in between the Thorn and typical carbon fibre road frames. In short they are well designed winter trainers / audax type bikes but with a change of wheels and removal of mudguards ride like a decent road bike.

http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/racelight/4s
http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/racelight/t2

[ChrisButch]

I've recently retired a Thorn Audax. This was an earlier model, the one built with a motley assembly of different Reynolds tubes - some 753, some 653, some 531 on different parts of the frame.

It had all the advantages mentioned above, of which perhaps the most useful was the 135OLN rear dropout spacing, which made it possible to fit Shimano MTB hubs with better seals. However, I have to say that I always found it rather sluggish to ride. Whether that applies to more recent models with different tubing I can't say.

[Spinners]

I've used the Thorn Audax Mk.3 as a flat-bar road bike and also with drops (both self-build) and found it to be a good honest bike with good handling. Yes, it's slightly heavy but if you're not racing then it's probably as good as anything out there.

[PH]

If you're not careful it would be easy end up with two bikes, that although different, might not be different enough to warrant having both. My tourer (Hewit Cheviot) and Audax (SOMA ES) with the same kit and tyres are like this, if I was starting again I'd have a bigger difference between them.
The Thorn is well towards the touring end of the Audax spectrum, the Kenisis that robc02 was suggesting is more towards the road end, most of the big names also do a sportive bike, Trek Domane, Cannondale Synapse are two that spring to mind, somewhere between road and Audax.

[iandriver]

Echo the views of having a big difference. I've got a Surly cross check built heavily and a Kenesis 4S built much lighter. The 4S is the stiffer frameset compared to the T2, which for me in the 63cm is fine. If in a smaller frame, I might still go for the T2.

You're very spoilt for choice now, with manufacturers finally coming around to tyre clearance. Bikes like the Whyte Suffolk will be very flexible machines still, but quick with it. I've noticed a real surge on light CX bikes on audaxes this year. I think you really need to think if a dedicated road bike is really the thing to get now if you're starting from scratch, especially if you need to lower the gearing. With other bikes pretty much as light, but a lot more flexible, I can't help thinking a dedicated road bike is a bit old hat in 2015 if you're never up against the clock.

PS, I've used my Surly and Kenesis on 100k audaxes this year, the heavy one only averaged .8 MPH slower (about 5%). The Kenesis feels a lot more sprightly, but by the time I've messed about looking at maps, taking photos and gassing to other riders etc., you might not get as much speed as you were hoping for (I do notoriously sight see on these adventures).

[horizon]

I wonder if there is anything to say about this apart from it's what you fancy. I know you need to try bikes out but the facts are pretty clear regarding weight and wheel size etc. I'm so prejudiced in favour of practicality that I would choose the Audax every time, especially the Thorn. But there are many who would unhesitatingly choose the carbon road bike.

At least you know you have the choice - I wonder how many people think that road bikes are the only bikes ...

[sammyl1000]

Another one to add to the mix... Genesis Equilibrium. I have the Disc version built up with Shimano 105 and H plus son wheel rims. It is equally suitable with 23mm tyres as it is with 30mm! I love it!!!
Perfectly quick enough to keep up on club runs and I don't doubt its ability for some light touring too (planned for summer).
Good value for money too.

[Brucey]

now I may be imagining it, but I could swear that Alastair has been wrestling with a similar dilemma (in previous threads) for at least a couple of years now.

Some people would have been through half a dozen bikes in that time; sometimes you just have to try stuff out and see how you get on with it. Test rides are very useful (if a little bewildering unless you are used to swapping bikes often) but it is only a longer acquaintance with a bike that reveals whether you are really going to get on with it or not.

A suggestion; why not hit gumtree locally and see if you can't find a lightly-used road bike of some kind (that you can sell on for about the same money if you don't like it) and just see how you go?

cheers

[keyboardmonkey]

I wonder if there is anything to say about this apart from ...

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and

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and

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=89332

and

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and

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and

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and

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91582

I am inclined to agree with Horizon.

I don't mean to be rude but I think, Alistair, it is make your mind up time I hope you choose a bike you are happy with.

[beardy]

It is a forum for talking about bikes, so hardly surprising that people post on here to talk about bikes.

Sometimes the planning is the fun and often that is more fun when not done in isolation.

I dont intend buying another bike in my life, I did spend quite a lot of time choosing my final one as it was always meant to be my final one.

I do think the Thorn Audax is a sort of bike I would choose if it was to be my only bike.
Yet as a back up to a Galaxy I would have something else otherwise the Galaxy would be very rarely ridden, big shopping trips mostly.