Cycling UK Forum

Some users seem to take the wear-all-the-time thing to extremes. As a particularly extreme example, a few years ago I was in the Tan Hill pub (to anybody unfamiliar with it, it's in the Pennine Way but it's also the highest pub in Yorkshire?/ England?/the Universe?/ There was a walker in there wearing one of these which would probably have needed surgical intervention to get it off his back. To describe his B.O as pungent wouldn't even begin to do it justice. I've known cyclists who weren't in his class, but pongy nevertheless. Of course, poor personal hygiene is possible with any togs, but a vest is easier to change and wash regularly than a jacket. In general, people seem unaware of their own BO (which is probably why the term was coined for the ads, where the letters were whispered to offenders, raising doubts in the minds of anybody with a conscience, and raising sales of the soap.)

The term 'Smelly Helly' was coined to describe the effect of wearing a Helly Hansen base layer. My old ones would reek after one days wear. As an aside my Buffalo shirts / jackets drip dry overnight. As with any gear, it's great as long as it suits you.

I rather agree with PJC above being a fan of both Buffalo and Paramo gear; bother being amongst the few bits of kit that have fully lived up to or even surpassed quite wild claims from their manufacturers. That said I suspect a Buffalo would be warm for cycling. I have their mountain shirt or whatever it's called which is an over the head design, and for winter hillwalking is astonishingly good kit. Against Buffalo's own advice, I wear a thermal underneath, but more so I can take the Buffalo off without being naked, than to keep me warm wearing said Buffalo. If it gets really wet / horrible I wear a Paramo anorak over the top. If you feel the cold the mountain shirt could be worth a go for foul weather cycling. They used to do a cycling specific one which was a bit thinner - I tried one briefly but got rid of it as it was the wrong size - so didn't give it a proper go.

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but this felt like the best place for a mini-review of a Buffalo 'shirt'. I've written in some detail in the hope it may be useful to anyone else wondering whether £200+ is worth it for a jacket(!)

Buffalo clothing is an evergreen topic of conversation here and after several years of reading posts about Buffalo, I was finally triggered enough by this thread viewtopic.php?t=158767 (Gore-Tex: is it really this bad?) to take the plunge, hand over rather a lot of my hard-earned cash and buy myself a Teclite Shirt.

Other than the cost, the whole (too) warm thing put me off trying out a Buffalo for a long time. I run hot, and I sweat a lot. The sweating bit led me to give up on Gore-Tex and similar years and years ago, and I invested in a Paramo Quito (light jacket) over a decade ago. That jacket is nearing the end of its life, and I've never been too happy with Paramo's 'waterproof' qualities, since I was frequently left soaked through after just half an hour of heavy rain on the bike (although apparently the full weight Paramos are better in the waterproof department).

The running hot thing led me to buy a Teclite rather than a full-weight Buffalo shirt or jacket, and I went for the shirt version because the Teclite Jacket doesn't have side zips for ventilation, and I find those rather useful when I need cooling down but don't want to expose my tummy to cold winds.

So far I've used the Teclite while cycling between 2C and 8C, and on day-long hikes in hilly areas between -2C and +12C. I haven't exposed it to full-on rain yet, but for those temperatures the Teclite is clearly nowhere near warm enough for me, and I'm now wondering whether to get the Special 6 shirt for winter walking and cycling.

Since the Teclite isn't warm enough by itself, I've been wearing the Paramo Quito on top of the Buffalo Teclite worn next to my skin, and that has been pretty close to perfect. The first time I wore it, I deliberately cycled hard and fast, trying to work up a sweat and wondering why I couldn't. When I got home, I found the Teclite shirt was damp all the way through, as was the Paramo in part. Yet I hadn't felt cold or wet or at all uncomfortable.

The same thing happened when hiking with the Teclite as a base layer (next to skin) and the Paramo on top, except I noticed the cold more when walking. As soon as I'd reached the top of a hill, I'd not be exerting myself so much and would cool down again. This was less of an issue while cycling when the exertion is pretty uniform throughout the day compared to hiking. And just to be clear, that cooling down was due to the cold 'from the outside', rather than that horrible cold, clammy feeling you get when a sweaty baselayer is just sucking the heat out of your body.

Compared to the Paramo (which feels sweaty and warm when cycling in summer rain, I don't wear it above 13C), the Teclite feels lighter and less rigid. The Paramo is a jacket that you're aware of wearing, the Teclite is more of a warm t-shirt that you don't notice (except for the nylon outer being a bit rustly). I'm impressed by the way you can just ball the Teclite up and shove it in a pannier or rucksack. It packs down small, and is relatively light, considering it's about as warm as a decent base plus light fleece jumper. I imagine it'll be useful on tours when the weather is less than amenable and in the evening.

In summary, I'm gobsmacked at how comfortable the Teclite shirt is, even when drenched in sweat. The Teclite is definitely too light for winter, even for someone who runs hot such as myself, and if the Teclite is as useful in the spring and (dare I say it) summer as it has been combined with the Paramo this winter then I shall be investing in a SP6/Alpine Jacket/other full weight Buffalo for next winter.

I'll keep you all posted as the weather warms up and I get to use the Teclite by itself and in the rain.

I’ve used a buffalo cycling top since the 80’s. It’s my go to top below 3C. Excellent. The pile fabric is not that close woven like another copy I have for walking. I have nothing but praise for the design.
I would say not too Nickwax it.

Merry_Wanderer wrote: ↑21 Jan 2015, 6:44pm The term 'Smelly Helly' was coined to describe the effect of wearing a Helly Hansen base layer. My old ones would reek after one days wear. As an aside my Buffalo shirts / jackets drip dry overnight. As with any gear, it's great as long as it suits you.

I used Helly base layers for a while but found them itchy.

Looking through this thread I see I'd put in some posts based on similar kit and theory. Since then I've dipped my toe in the water with an eBay bargain and since then I've become the happy owner of Special 6, Active Lite and Teclite shirts.

They're excellent and my usual Weapons of Choice on cool or cold, grey, damp days. I find I'm consistently more comfortable in them than in conventional layers if the conditions suit. Even the lighter ones are obviously too hot for a nice summer day, but even when the ambients are low, sustained hard work in the sun (like hacking up a big climb, be that on foot, bike or skis) has me boiling. But for days like their website marketing shots (damp and grey) they're at least as good as anything else I've tried.

The Special 6 needs low temperatures, but particularly for those days just over freezing but where the air is damp and it feels colder than it has any right to, it's superb. The only time I've used anything under it was for downhill skiing, otherwise it's next to skin.
The Teclite and Active Lite I usually wear next to skin, but there are temperatures where it's not cold enough for the Special 6 but a bit chilly in the lighter shirts without a base layer.

Layering is more versatile and you can always find something that'll work, but if you have space in the wardrobe for a Buffalo or similar there are days when IME they work better.

Regarding Nikwax or similar, Buffalos ship with a DWR coat on the outer but it's important not to use a wash-in reproofer as that'll inhibit the wicking properties of the pile. So a spray on reproofer for the outer is okay, but leave the liner untreated (that's different from Paramo which needs everything DWR coated to work properly).

Shirt or jacket? Things on the shirts like the chest-strap and hip tabs to let you change the volume make a significant difference IME. I have a Buffalo Windcheeater jacket and and a Rab Vapour Rise jacket (not dissimilar to a Buffalo Fell jacket) and both are great coats, but the extra touches on the shirts make them better in that damp/grey sweet-spot just on their own IMHO, and I use the coats in a layering setup.

Pete.

I’m following this thread with interested, as I ride an ebike, and can never seem to get warm in cold weather. I am pedalling all the time but I do need even eco mode if its anything more than flat to move me and my 30kg bike along.
The buffalo jacket mentioned looks like it would work for me, I seem to remember owning one a very long time ago in my mountain biking days, and if I remember correctly it had a strap that went from the hem, and down between my legs and fastened at the back, but that may be a false memory, I seem to have them far too often.
So, if a Buffalo jacket, which one, would a super six be too warm do you think?

Vetus Ossa wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 7:07pm I’m following this thread with interested, as I ride an ebike, and can never seem to get warm in cold weather. I am pedalling all the time but I do need even eco mode if its anything more than flat to move me and my 30kg bike along.
The buffalo jacket mentioned looks like it would work for me, I seem to remember owning one a very long time ago in my mountain biking days, and if I remember correctly it had a strap that went from the hem, and down between my legs and fastened at the back, but that may be a false memory, I seem to have them far too often.

Sounds like this one...
https://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/cycle-shirt/

Vetus Ossa wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 7:07pm So, if a Buffalo jacket, which one, would a super six be too warm do you think?

The S6 uses more or less the same setup in terms of insulation as the Cycle Shirt you used to have, so that should be a fair indicator. There are quite small differences between most of the shirts, with the S6, Mountain Shirt, Explorer, Cycle Shirt and Active Shirt all more or less as warm as one another and differences in detailing. I prefer the S6 as it's the longest and I have short legs and a long trunk as well as preferring a bit more bum cover, but I'd think they should all do more or less the same when it comes to keeping toasty.

Like anything warm there are days/conditions where you'll roast in it and days where you'll really appreciate something that warm, and if you're having trouble keeping warm there will be more of the latter.

Pete.

Vetus Ossa wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 7:07pm I’m following this thread with interested, as I ride an ebike, and can never seem to get warm in cold weather.

Me too. Gone are the days of completely cooking on local winter ascents of Yr Eryi's magic road climbs and feezing to death on the descents due to all the sweat trapped under a Goretex cycling jacket. The e-bike cures the personal overheating admirably.

So this thread and info is very helpful - and there's a Buffalo and Paramo discount dealer in the nearest village only 3.5 miles away

I like the look of the Belay jacket, purely as it has a full length zip

You can achieve the same effect as Buffalo at a lot less cost and more flexibility. We were doing it before Buffalo came about. Indeed their system just formalised the norm. Wear fibre pile* next to the skin in any garment you like and a windproof layer over the top in much the same design or different. You can remove the outer layer if you need more ventilation or add to it if you want more waterproofing. Double layers of pile are great.
*Not modern fleece but real pile as made by Helly Hansen or found as German/Dutch army surplus. Even Mountain Warehouse sell the stuff.

Vetus Ossa wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 7:07pm I’m following this thread with interested, as I ride an ebike, and can never seem to get warm in cold weather. I am pedalling all the time but I do need even eco mode if its anything more than flat to move me and my 30kg bike along.

I suggest you read djnotts' recent thread - viewtopic.php?t=158957. He is not using an ebike, but I suspect you may be riding at a somewhat similar low intensity level as him. If so, I would give you the same advice and suggest that a Buffalo top is unlikely to be the answer - viewtopic.php?p=1811119#p1811119. The insulated Decathlon jacket I suggested was - viewtopic.php?p=1811879#p1811879

I think mattsccm’s point about “do it yourself “ is a good idea. Different grades of Pile are available and so a couple could be made for use over a wider temperature range.

pjclinch wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 7:52pm

Vetus Ossa wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 7:07pm I’m following this thread with interested, as I ride an ebike, and can never seem to get warm in cold weather. I am pedalling all the time but I do need even eco mode if its anything more than flat to move me and my 30kg bike along.
The buffalo jacket mentioned looks like it would work for me, I seem to remember owning one a very long time ago in my mountain biking days, and if I remember correctly it had a strap that went from the hem, and down between my legs and fastened at the back, but that may be a false memory, I seem to have them far too often.

Sounds like this one...
https://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/products/cycle-shirt/

Vetus Ossa wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 7:07pm So, if a Buffalo jacket, which one, would a super six be too warm do you think?

The S6 uses more or less the same setup in terms of insulation as the Cycle Shirt you used to have, so that should be a fair indicator. There are quite small differences between most of the shirts, with the S6, Mountain Shirt, Explorer, Cycle Shirt and Active Shirt all more or less as warm as one another and differences in detailing. I prefer the S6 as it's the longest and I have short legs and a long trunk as well as preferring a bit more bum cover, but I'd think they should all do more or less the same when it comes to keeping toasty.

Like anything warm there are days/conditions where you'll roast in it and days where you'll really appreciate something that warm, and if you're having trouble keeping warm there will be more of the latter.

Pete.

Thanks Pete, some useful info there, I will check Buffalo out.

deliquium wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 8:07pm

Vetus Ossa wrote: ↑30 Dec 2023, 7:07pm I’m following this thread with interested, as I ride an ebike, and can never seem to get warm in cold weather.

Me too. Gone are the days of completely cooking on local winter ascents of Yr Eryi's magic road climbs and feezing to death on the descents due to all the sweat trapped under a Goretex cycling jacket. The e-bike cures the personal overheating admirably.

So this thread and info is very helpful - and there's a Buffalo and Paramo discount dealer in the nearest village only 3.5 miles away

I like the look of the Belay jacket, purely as it has a full length zip

Ooh, more useful info to follow up, thanks.