i phone or Garmin? (or something else?)

[andrewjoseph]

I do a lot of mountain biking, no way am I going to use my phone as my navigation device. It stays nice and safe in my backpack, with my os maps and compass

My tough little waterproof Garmin is on the bars.

[Norman H]

Colin wrote

I currently use 2 1/2 inch paper maps in the Dales

If you are routinely using 1:25k OS paper maps. You are going to find using the digital equivalent, on anything much smaller than a 7” screen, very frustrating. Your best option may be to do what I mostly do. I use Memory Map on the pc for all my planning. I then print paper copies of the relevant sections of map. (You can print to waterproof paper or you can laminate but I find plastic A4 wallets adequate for all but the worst deluges) I navigate using a combination of GPS and the paper maps. In other words, when I get hopelessly lost I can use the GPS to confirm my position on the paper map which gives me the bigger picture. It also means that the GPS doesn't need to be constantly powered up and battery life isn't a problem.

Digital 1:25k OS maps aren't cheap.

[al_yrpal]

Colin, just one point I forgot. I too always have a bar bag on my tourer. It has a transparent map holder on the top. My Android phone goes in that and the lead to the auxiliary battery goes though into the main compartment. Although the transparent surface is quite thick I can operate the phone with my finger through the transparent surface. The phone is also well protected from rain and shock. If I have a cafe stop, the bar bag comes off complete with wallet and any other valuables. I also have the complete UK and northern France on Memory Map and often print out sections. I too often use the phones location function to see where I am, using the printed map as a general guide. But on occasions on a new route I do use the cycle.travel / Osmand combination I previously described to navigate it guided. There is nothing like an OS map for locating pubs!

Al

[ferdinand]

Colin wrote

I currently use 2 1/2 inch paper maps in the Dales

If you are routinely using 1:25k OS paper maps. You are going to find using the digital equivalent, on anything much smaller than a 7” screen, very frustrating. Your best option may be to do what I mostly do. I use Memory Map on the pc for all my planning. I then print paper copies of the relevant sections of map. (You can print to waterproof paper or you can laminate but I find plastic A4 wallets adequate for all but the worst deluges) I navigate using a combination of GPS and the paper maps. In other words, when I get hopelessly lost I can use the GPS to confirm my position on the paper map which gives me the bigger picture. It also means that the GPS doesn't need to be constantly powered up and battery life isn't a problem.

Digital 1:25k OS maps aren't cheap.

If doing this remember that colour laser prints are water fast; in general colour inkjets are not.

Take some in the shower to compare.

F
{Former greetings card printer)

[MGate]

Hi Colin,

there's no one great solution to this one, they all have pros and cons. I used a Garmin 810 to map my wife's successful LEJOG (mine less successful...). It took some getting used to, planning routes online, uploading, then the unit would sometime figure out its own route based on your route and would do bonkers things like take you off a B road for 200 yards then back on to the same road because in the route settings you specified 'avoid main roads'.

I loaded mine with Open Street Maps, free, and I'm not a great fan of the OS, and they work fine. Scrolling around the screen is not as fast or easy as an iPhone though.

Anyhow I could go on for hours and hours talking about downloading and calibrating maps to the original windows PC phones, but all that is pretty boring stuff - I cracked a rib at the weekend so will be out of action for a bit - would you like to borrow my unit for a couple of weeks? I'm in North Yorkshire too.

[Brucey]

....If doing this remember that colour laser prints are water fast; in general colour inkjets are not...

that is kind of what I was angling at earlier; most folk's home printers don't quite stretch to colour laser, do they?

I have a local print shop that will laser print A4 pages for not much; barring miracle inks for home use I shall use those I reckon.

cheers

[Mattyfez]

I find my android phone perfectly good, it's got Google maps and also some apps worth looking at are map my ride, and runtastic mountain bike or road bike version for calorie counting and speed /elevation of ride, etc.

I tend to plan a route at home so I've got an idea of where I'm going and keep the phone in a pocket and just get it out to check directions of needed.

I have an HTC one m8, and the battery will last all day runningthe above, less if you keep stopping to check Facebook as it's the screen backlight that uses most power.

[hercule]

I was 6 years a happy iPhone 3GS user though latterly the battery life became shorter and shorter (recording a GPS trace took a real hit on battery life) and successive software updates seemed to make it ever slower. Not wanting to be locked into a contract I looked at the new iPhones and didn't feel I could justify the cost. It was with some trepidation I looked at Android phones. I finally (after months of debate) splashed out on a Sony Xperia Z3 Compact and have been completely won over by it. Waterproof, excellent battery life, a screen that works even if I've got gloves on, and oodles of storage space if I need it. Also small enough to fit in my pocket! Less than half the price of a new iPhone too...

I did a lot of research to check the availability of my favourite apps - just about all were available on Android, those that weren't had close equivalents. For mapping I used to use Atlas on the iPhone for OS maps, I had to switch so am now using Viewranger (which I can use on my GPS-enabled iPad as well). The much improved resolution of the screen does make a big difference (though this observation would apply to any new phone of whatever persuasion). The switch from iOS to Android was much less painless than I expected, in fact now I positively prefer it. YMMV. I do keep the phone tucked away in a pocket though - I don't think I would trust any handlebar mount to keep it secure.

One GPS-related query I have is that no matter what device I use (phone or GPS running watch - I've used various Garmin Forerunners and now a Suunto Ambit2) is that despite keeping a steady pace the recorded track has my speed jumping all over the place. Is this an inevitable GPS artifact, or am I really constantly speeding up and slowing down (it seems unlikely as I usually spin away at a pretty constant cadence in the same gear for long stretches)?

[531colin]

I'm beginning to see 2 separate situations here........
Multi-day touring....largely road/sustrans routes...
Probably a tablet in the bar bag map pocket, running relatively small-scale zoom-able digital maps to cover bigger areas.
Off-road rides....mainly reasonably local, in areas I know quite well....Dales, North Yorkshire Moors, Lakes....day rides or short tours
I already have paper maps, and in small geographical areas its possible to carry them.....so its probably paper maps backed up by a phone for GPS Less need for a bar bag on day rides, although if I want the binoculars handy.......
Looked a Open Street/Cycle maps.....seems really odd that the minor roads (that I seek) are WHITE.....is there an option? white is harder for this old man to see than the OS pale yellow..... ...I don't think I can face exploring more than one map system a day!
@MGate...that's a really good offer to lend me a GPS, thank you...but at the moment I'm drawn to the other ways of skinning this particular cat......

[Tonyf33]

I use a Samsung galaxy SII which I've had from new. std loaded maps are fine for all (but the most intrepid of explorers) but aren't OS, even places I've never visited before they are fine and having street names too helps. you can obviously download apps and indeed buy more detailed maps but I really don't think you need them.

The huge advantage of an android phone is the ability to buy an additional battery for not very much and massively extend your usage without a power source.
I purchased a battery 2.5x the capacity of the original, it came with new back cover to accommodate the extra width. It cost £7 posted. I also bought a fully waterproof case that has a handlebar mount that cost me £6-7. You can disengage the case from the mount in seconds when parking the bike up or just for when you want to go walking and give it extra protection both from the elements and in case you drop it.
You can't swap the battery out (in 8 seconds on the galaxy) at all on an iphone and navigation and GPS drain batteries fairly heftily.
I'd personally stick to a phone, it's one gadget not two..it's small enough to pop in a back pocket without any detrimental weight compared to a GPS system. i'd discount a tablet because they are too bulky and much more chance of screen damage. my SII which is 3 years old has a 4.3" screen so enough for most though later models are larger how much more you are going to gain over say a 7" tablet for instance that doesn't have phone capabilities is minimal 99% of the time.
My two pennath

[[XAP]Bob]

4" screen on a phone, 8" screen on a tablet - the tablet has four times the screen area.

That's quite significant. I've had replacement batteries, even used them occasionally- a USB power pack is easily a match for them, no down time at all, no faffing with covers and naked batteries...

Power pack in bar bag, cable snakes to the device in the map case on the top. Depending on the device an external power source is often the easiest way to stop it falling asleep.

Tablets also fit in pockets, not that I tend to have many pockets when I'm out riding.... But surely when you leave the bike you just lift the bar bag?

[Brucey]

IIRC there was quite a bit of excitement a few years ago at the prospect of 'electronic paper' for robust (near disposable cost) low-power display of data. It seems to me that this might be an ideal application. Did it ever make it out of the lab?

cheers

[Psamathe]

You can't swap the battery out (in 8 seconds on the galaxy) at all on an iphone and navigation and GPS drain batteries fairly heftily.

Actually you can. Takes a little longer than 8 seconds but you can replace the batteries. GPS drain is not too bad (I get 2 hrs use GPS on continually, recording a track (hi-res mode) plus all the other phone power consumption for 15% battery use).

The huge advantage of an android phone is the ability to buy an additional battery for not very much and massively extend your usage without a power source.

Actually such devices are available for the iPhone (a reasonable choice).

Ian

[pete75]

You can't swap the battery out (in 8 seconds on the galaxy) at all on an iphone and navigation and GPS drain batteries fairly heftily.

Actually you can. Takes a little longer than 8 seconds but you can replace the batteries. GPS drain is not too bad (I get 2 hrs use GPS on continually, recording a track (hi-res mode) plus all the other phone power consumption for 15% battery use).



Ian

A little longer? You're messing about with small screws which isn't ideal on the road.
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/apple ... e-battery/

[andrewjoseph]

....If doing this remember that colour laser prints are water fast; in general colour inkjets are not...

that is kind of what I was angling at earlier; most folk's home printers don't quite stretch to colour laser, do they?

I have a local print shop that will laser print A4 pages for not much; barring miracle inks for home use I shall use those I reckon.

cheers

Mine does,

Color lasers cost much more, but long term they are cheaper.