why not all lugged frames are created equal...

[pete75]

Poor old Touristique. I've got one of those - ridden it for years with a lot of fully laden camping touring without any problems. A nice frame to ride, comfortable enough unladen and very stable with a full load front and rear. Funnily I've just reframed the bike with a Surly Long Haul frame - not because of any problems but it was always slightly too small for me and now I'm getting old and stiff it's been making my back ache on long trips a while. I tried stem risers, long stems etc but there's a limit to what you can do with those and not put too much weight in the wrong place so the frame had to go. Or rather it hasn't gone yet. Don't suppose I'll be able to sell it to anyone now if they've read Brucey's condemnation of the way the frames are made. Shame really as it's been a good and trusty friend and I'd have preferred it to have gone to someone who would use it.

[Brucey]

I don't think that all such frames are likely to have a large unfused region in them; there are gazillions of frames (made similarly by lots of different manufacturers) that will last for years out there. I own several myself! Any frame, any steel frame, can eventually break so keeping an eye on the parts that are most highly stressed is just common sense anyway.

Note also that in the event of cracks or actual breakage, your ride may be over but (with the exception of the steerer breaking, which is how come steerer bases are at least twice as thick as any other bicycle tube) it is unlikely to immediately cause a nasty accident. It is not for nothing that the diamond frame design has been so successful for so long!

But if anyone wonders what the difference between a handbuilt frame and mass produced one might be, this kind of thing can be amongst the differences. Others have commented similarly that mass-produced frames built in the same tubeset can feel mysteriously floppier than a handbuilt one and that this can be the reason why.

I was (through dumb luck more than anything else) the happy owner of a very used Witcomb when I was a callow yoof. I repainted it amongst other things and had a good chance to see what the metalwork looked like under the paint.

For a while, I thought all frames were made like that; with nice slim lugs, neat shorelines on every one, and no stray file marks. Boy, did I have a lot to learn!

cheers

[Mick F]

BTW had this been my frame, I might well have had it properly repaired.

The saddest part of this whole story, is that it ended up at the tip!
Why?

He could have GIVEN to frame to someone (like me?) and have had it repaired and checked properly. No doubt because Mercian did the refurbishment, they would be happy to give a discount on the job.

I'd have been happy to take a punt on this. Nowt to lose, get it back to Mercian and see what they say.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
My argument for and against....................custom / mass produced, not specifically frames but any part.

How many custom frame makers employ independent inspectors

In general I have found that individuals, even by the fact that you end up working on autopilot are not that good at self inspection..........
Proper QA & QC should minimise errors in production when implemented correctly.

So it is possible to employ custom frame makers and mass produce

[Neil C]

The saddest part of this whole story, is that it ended up at the tip!
Why?

He could have GIVEN to frame to someone (like me?) and have had it repaired and checked properly. No doubt because Mercian did the refurbishment, they would be happy to give a discount on the job.

I'd have been happy to take a punt on this. Nowt to lose, get it back to Mercian and see what they say.

And I would have been happy with just the fork. Need one to replace the cheap 'n' nasty fork I got fobbed off with when hit by a car about thirty years ago.

[TimP]

That would seem to be the most common joint to fail.

I had a Falcon Olympic back in the 1970s to 1990s (last ridden 1987 - read on for the reason).

Whilst touring in Scotland the down tube became loose in the lug. It was actually sliding loosely in and out of the lug a bit. By redistribution of weight and keeping the front brake partially on a bit all the time I managed to ride it the remaining couple of hundred miles home. As a teenager with no money in my pocket for a train ticket you did that kind of thing in those days.

I took it to the factory (in Brigg those days, just a few miles from home) and they exchanged it for a new frame and forks. I suspect they might have given me a complete bike but I only took the frame and forks to them as I had upgraded many of the other components). I remember they were good about it and the fact it was made of Reynolds 531db had a bearing on their warranty too - unquestioned and unlimited time if Reynolds 531db). The replacement frame was not quite the same as the old Olympic had been discontinued. I think I ended up with a development frame, or something like as it did not totally match any Falcon frame on the market then or in the next year or two and had only Falcon stickers, no model markings.

The replacement frame served me well for years. I added cantilever brakes, double bottle mounts and so on. I left the bike at home while in university for safety reasons - taking an older scruffy bike with me instead. After university I moved abroad for work on what I thought was to be a temporary basis, so I left the bike tied up against the roof of my dad's garage. A few years later he was having some work done on the house and the contractor saw the bike and asked for it. Dad gave it to him. I was gutted when I found out. I am now still riding the older, scruffier bike. I am a six footer and the bike I'm riding was my 11th birthday present - when I was about the smallest kid in my school year. It is a 19 1/2 inch framed Falcon Black Diamond that fits my 5' 1" tall wife. Ah well, at least I still get to be on 2 wheels.