WHO report: 74% of men & 64% women in UK overweight by 2030

[RogerThat]

If anything, I think 74% will be a conservative estimate. We're seeing a yearly 1% increase in overweight and obese admissions. If this continues I think we'd be looking at 80+% by 2030. Although again, this is course a rough estimate based on clinical admissions across our 9 facilities.

[beardy]

It also assumes a homogeneous, continuous nature of human activity. There may still be a fraction of the population who have personal pride and responsibility and will take the necessary action to remain fit and healthy despite external influences. So the fraction of people getting to overweight status may have a sharp cut-off point in exactly the same way that there isnt one at BMI=25.

[RogerThat]

It also assumes a homogeneous, continuous nature of human activity. There may still be a fraction of the population who have personal pride and responsibility and will take the necessary action to remain fit and healthy despite external influences. So the fraction of people getting to overweight status may have a sharp cut-off point in exactly the same way that there isnt one at BMI=25.

I have absolutely no idea what you just said!!!

[beardy]

It made perfect sense to me.

OK. I dont think the increase of the % will continue at the rate which it is now doing because there will be a % of the population who are "immune" to the obesity epidemic. The % will reach a point where it stalls and grows no more.

These people are immune to obesity because they have a personal pride and take responsibility for their own actions and well-being.

The bit about BMI is a joke because I am objecting to people assuming that there is a cut off point between healthy and unhealthy at BMI=25 (like I am proposing between people who will get fat and will not get fat) and I think that is a just an arbitrary point along a gentle slope.

[Edwards]

Roger just a reminder that you recommended a device that uses an electric current to measure body fat at a cost of nearly £100.
It is a useless toy with no proven medical use, unless you include sweaty feet.

So it was you that recommended something useless and even when on to agree that is was a useless toy when presented with the facts.

Again how can you state BMI is unreliable and worse than useless yet claim this article is based on sound medical principles?
I have read it before you even linked to it but it is your double standard that is being questioned by me not that article

[RogerThat]

Keith. I don't think any of your points are worthy of a response. Please stay on topic with the OP. That is after all the way forums work.
You're not advancing the subject one bit.

Play the ball, not the man.

[mjr]

So how do we get GP surgeries to encourage cycling with groups like CTC and friends, rather than merely tolerate us by providing small average-at-best cycle parks?

[al_yrpal]

So how do we get GP surgeries to encourage cycling with groups like CTC and friends, rather than merely tolerate us by providing small average-at-best cycle parks?

Oblige all GP surgeries to join the National Health Walk and Nation Green Gym schemes and run weekly cycle rides (possibly in conjunction with CTC or BC) and if necessary pay them to organise it. If the government can force them to open on weekends to dosh out pills surely getting them to promote exercise with these excellent existing schemes is trivial by comparison?

Al

[RogerThat]

There are several 'Healthy Living' cycling and walking schemes in my area. Unfortunately they are piecemeal and usually poorly funded, attracting less than a dozen or so participants. It is heartening however to see many of my ex patients joining schemes like these. Clearly a lot more money has to be pumped into preventing illness in the first place, a mass participation scheme would be advantageous, with perhaps the carrot and stick of free clothing or equipment provided (helmets, locks ect)
I'd personally like to see it incentivised by an NI contributions reduction for those participating in such initiatives.

[beardy]

Would I have to put on a few Kgs in order to be eligible for these benefits?
Would those who always do the right thing by keeping healthy be similarly "rewarded"?

Personally I dont like the principle of the state taking responsibility for an individual's personal choices.

[RogerThat]

Personally I think it way past time the state DID intervene in personal choices. Smoking in public ect, it's not exactly unprecedented action. If we really want a free health service at the point of need, then it's high time we started participating in our own health management. The NHS is not a free for all, fix all personal abuses service. What about personal responsibility!!?

[Tangled Metal]

My old gym had NHS referrals for obese patients. They basically got free membership of the gym and extras support from the trainers there. Although the ones who took advantage of that scheme were few and the benefits were non-existent because they chose to not put the effort in. The only ones I knew about who were with this scheme spent their time in the gym sat on these toning tables that shook and moved different parts of the person's anatomy. The whole image of fat people sat on a bench which consisted of two pads that moved together then apart setting up a whole wave ripple up their back in the fatty layers (spare tyres galore) was a real joke to those of us who actually spent time working out on the resistance machines to tone up and the CV machines to improve general fitness. Out of those people I only saw 2 come out from the toning table room and spend time on treadmills walking. They made amazing progress and I believe lost a lot of weight (I left the gym and did outside stuff to keep fit about the time that happened).

What I am saying is the NHS has funded some useless and un-monitored schemes to help with obesity. In some ways it is only down to those affected to make the changes that are needed and then make them work. It takes commitment and effort. That will never be produced by NHS spending on schemes to bring the obesity down. You can tell people til you are blue in the face how to live healthily but that will not make it happen. Sorry but it is down to the individual that as a population our obesity levels are increasing. I for one am looking after myself, that is all I can do and it is time others did the same. Harsh I know.

PS what is the percentage of underweight? Anyone know that? A few years ago I saw a programme on weight issues that actually looked at underweight as a problem. IIRC the experts said that underweight could be as serious as being overweight with a lot of very nasty conditions that were becoming linked to this. I can't remember which but it is conditions as serious as alzheimers, stroke, etc. (Not saying it was those just that it was conditions as serious as those). It is a matter of interest to me because I was seriously underweight for about half my life. I dread to think what damage that has caused.

[beardy]

What about personal responsibility!!?

That is the point it is personal responsibility not the state's. Responsibility means the freedom to do the "wrong" thing.

If the state wishes to look at responsibility it should look at its own and clamp down on the sources of obesity. People too overworked to find time for exercise, a food industry that pushes crap food, a travel plan based on ever increasing use of and priority for private car use. Etc etc etc.

[Tangled Metal]

So personal responsibility is to take a back seat to the nanny state imposing restrictions on diet and lifestyle choices. I am not able to use my car because of the choices of obese people? I am healthy now and maintain that healthy lifestyle but I do use the car over public transport sometimes as well as cycling to work. I also eat convenience food and takeaways but in a controlled way. I also have low blood pressure (sometimes it drops low so I black out a lot) and the recommendation was to eat more salt. I am not the only one with that I am sure. I only mention because I totally disagree with state intervention in the form of heavy handed proscribing of certain things because of a problem of personal control. I am really harsh with my view on this. Even if the obesity problem affects the majority of our nations citizens it should not be the case that their problem changes dramatically our rights to choose.

[beardy]

it should not be the case that their problem changes dramatically our rights to choose.

I agree but at the moment many people are not able to choose the healthy option. Your fears about being denied a right to convenience food, added salt and driving your car are so far from any potential reality, the thing that is more difficult to choose to do is to find the other options instead of junk food, car use and salt free food.
The state has a responsibility to give us a chance to make the right decisions instead of stacking the deck against us. Then we have our personal responsibility to ourselves to treat our bodies with some respect.