Grip strength as health indicator?

[661-Pete]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32639794
Quite an eye-opener and a surprise to me! Seeing as it comes from the Lancet I suppose it must be taken seriously.

For me personally I find it quite encouraging (though not an excuse to lower my guard regarding other risk factors!) because I've always had fairly strong fingers - years of piano-playing may have something to do with that, though I suppose cycling plays its part too. At any rate, I can quite often get that M+ or Armadillo on an obstinate rim without tools. And when there's an intractable jar of pickle to be opened, rubber gloves will serve for me, rarely do I have to reach for the mediaeval torture implement in the kitchen drawer....

I wonder what others have to say about the strength of their hands?

[Audax67]

How to measure it? I used to grasp the bathroom scales in both hands and squeeze, but since we got one of those fancy ones that makes insulting statements about your fat content that doesn't work any more. The pickle-jar scale seems rather iffy.

[661-Pete]

Well, there's this - and plenty of others like it at a wide range of prices and quality. I haven't tried one of those gadgets myself.

[Tangled Metal]

At school, all those years ago, they tried to be a bit scientific by measuring us. We got the old calipers on various parts of our bodies to measure fat content more accurately for example. However they also had this thing which is basically like an old fashioned dial scale with a handle attached. You hold the handle and squeeze long and steady as hard as you can and the dial goes up to record the maximum of your grip strength. I was in an all boy class at the time and there were I think about 30 lads there and I was the second highest figure on that grip strength. I guess that was related to my kayaking, well holding on to a paddle when your blade has hit a rock and is trying to be ripped out of your hands (in big whitewater) probably does develop strong grip. Later when climbing joined my list of hobbies my grip strength got quite good so I could do pull ups while hanging from 2 finger tips only. Used to do that, 10 pull ups on index fingers then repeat on the middle finger. Got ridiculous in the end but I doubt that meant I was healthier as I was about 3 stone underweight at the time which is not good.

Personally I read these stories and wonder if this is really good science or just statistics being used incorrectly to "prove" a causal link where there is not one. Whether that is the case I ignore all these latest health stories as IMHO they are just fluff. Live your life in moderation with exercise and I believe you are doing your best for your health.

[Tangled Metal]

Well, there's this - and plenty of others like it at a wide range of prices and quality. I haven't tried one of those gadgets myself.

That was what we used only with a lot bigger dial and a smaller grip part. I guess for kids, even 16 or 17 year olds, the grip strength does not need to be as high as that.

[Audax67]

Well, there's this - and plenty of others like it at a wide range of prices and quality. I haven't tried one of those gadgets myself.

"Seller doesn't deliver to France". Fortunately.

[beardy]

Arent these scientists* (as usual) missing the obvious?

Those people who are active and consequently going to be healthier as a result will also be fitter and stronger (often including their grip) as a result.
It probably isnt a causal link and it probably isnt a total link but enough of a link to show up in the results.

If on the other hand people think that buying a grip exerciser (yes, I have had one for years) is going to improve their health in addition to their grip strength, they are (rather limply ) clutching at straws. Riding a bicycle, on the other hand, will do a good job of making you healthier (but not much for your grip strength) if you are lacking in physical activity.

*In view of the post below that "scientists" should probably read as "science journalists"

[AlaninWales]

The people arguing that a grip strengthener will decrease your risk of heart disease are the journalists. What they are basing this on is
"A trial on nearly 140,000 people in 14 countries, published in the Lancet, suggests grip strength is better than blood pressure at predicting risk. " i.e. there is a (implied negative) correlation between grip strength and heart disease (presumably for the reasons already outlined in this thread). I am sure the researchers understand the difference between correlation and causation (they shouldn't have research jobs if they don't) but evidently the reporters do not (and for that reason should not be reporting on anything more important than Sunday tea parties). Alternatively the reporters do understand but deliberately choose to obfuscate the issue .

[simonineaston]

Arent these scientists* (as usual) missing the obvious?

Although I'm somewhat sympathetic to the view that journalists (even BBC journalists... ) often seize the most eye-catching fact out of these reports and inflate them to headline size, in order to create a piece that's newsworthy (i.e. suitably novel to catch the eye of the casual reader), that is after-all, their job - it's a consequence of their work that we're discussing this at all!
However, with due respect, Beardy, the scientists are simply stating the obvious - well, obvious now it's been the subject of a wide-ranging peer-reviewed study... as opposed to missing it.
And don't go rushing off to buy springs, folks - this is only an indicator.
from the study...
Interpretation
This study suggests that measurement of grip strength is a simple, inexpensive risk-stratifying method for all-cause death, cardiovascular death, and cardiovascular disease. Further research is needed to identify determinants of muscular strength and to test whether improvement in strength reduces mortality and cardiovascular disease.

[beardy]

Yes, I did sort of mis-read it and its says the grip strength is an indicator.

I was however (wittingly or not) led into misreading it

The huge trial, in 14 countries, showed each 11lb (5kg) reduction in grip strength increased the odds of an early death by 16%.

if you look at this snippet, that is consistent with it being a cause rather than an indicator.

[John-D]

The people arguing that a grip strengthener will decrease your risk of heart disease are the journalists. What they are basing this on is
"A trial on nearly 140,000 people in 14 countries, published in the Lancet, suggests grip strength is better than blood pressure at predicting risk. " i.e. there is a (implied negative) correlation between grip strength and heart disease (presumably for the reasons already outlined in this thread). I am sure the researchers understand the difference between correlation and causation (they shouldn't have research jobs if they don't) but evidently the reporters do not (and for that reason should not be reporting on anything more important than Sunday tea parties). Alternatively the reporters do understand but deliberately choose to obfuscate the issue .

Yes, and the paper repeatedly refers to 'an association' rather than a causal link.

[bigjim]

Riding a bicycle, on the other hand, will do a good job of making you healthier (but not much for your grip strength) if you are lacking in physical activity.

Try riding/braking on the hoods whilst using traditional non aero levers. Works wonders for grip strength.

[toomsie]

I am sure the researchers understand the difference between correlation and causation (they shouldn't have research jobs if they don't) but evidently the reporters do not (and for that reason should not be reporting on anything more important than Sunday tea parties). Alternatively the reporters do understand but deliberately choose to obfuscate the issue .

I don't think average folk know anything about science so there is no pressure say,"I acknowledge that correlation does not equal causation".

[AlaninWales]

I've come across university professors who don't understand science. One gave a lecture on how he had "proved" that it was impossible to correctly cook a stuffed turkey, by measuring the inside temperature of a stuffed turkey his wife was cooking. When I (misunderstanding the point he was making and thinking he wanted to promote discussion on the scientific method) piped up that all his anecdote had proved was that his wife's method of cooking turkeys was inadequate, I was somewhat unpopular .

[sjs]

This thread would have been perfect for RogerThat.