Extremely tight freewheel removal

[reohn2]

Glad you got it off
From now on in,copper grease on the threads,slacken it off every six months or so .
It sounds like it was that used to being there,it didn't want to be anywhere else

[Brucey]

I guess my point is that you are still left with a version of the classic 'touring bike vs freewheel removal' problem.

The conclusion I came to was that whilst I'd carry a removal tool, I wouldn't expect to be able to actually use it, necessarily. Not outside of a workshop, anyway.

If I broke a spoke I'd most likely remove the sprockets from the freewheel body or simply strip the freewheel body down; you can gain enough access to change a spoke this way. You just need a punch and a rock to do this if you have chosen the right freewheel to start with.

Fortunately the only time the freewheel really must come off is if the RH hub bearing collapses altogether. Outside of that, I reckon the body can pretty much stay on the wheel.

Copper grease will prevent seizure but it won't stop the freewheel from working itself incredibly tight. In fact it will help it do so. On a tandem with a strong crew it is always going to be a real bear to get off.

I kind of wish that they had produced the helicomatic freewheel system as an adapter for standard hubs, so you could leave the adapter in place on the hub, yet still service the hub bearings and remove the freewheel etc. If it were done in the right way you would be able to fit an outrigger bearing too....

cheers

[pete75]

Glad you got it off
From now on in,copper grease on the threads,slacken it off every six months or so .
It sounds like it was that used to being there,it didn't want to be anywhere else

Only had the machine since beginning of May. Not much used when I bought it but the freewheel had been on since it was new in 1993 ish so guess it was used to being there.

[pete75]

I guess my point is that you are still left with a version of the classic 'touring bike vs freewheel removal' problem.

The conclusion I came to was that whilst I'd carry a removal tool, I wouldn't expect to be able to actually use it, necessarily. Not outside of a workshop, anyway.

If I broke a spoke I'd most likely remove the sprockets from the freewheel body or simply strip the freewheel body down; you can gain enough access to change a spoke this way. You just need a punch and a rock to do this if you have chosen the right freewheel to start with.

Fortunately the only time the freewheel really must come off is if the RH hub bearing collapses altogether. Outside of that, I reckon the body can pretty much stay on the wheel.

Copper grease will prevent seizure but it won't stop the freewheel from working itself incredibly tight. In fact it will help it do so. On a tandem with a strong crew it is always going to be a real bear to get off.

I kind of wish that they had produced the helicomatic freewheel system as an adapter for standard hubs, so you could leave the adapter in place on the hub, yet still service the hub bearings and remove the freewheel etc. If it were done in the right way you would be able to fit an outrigger bearing too....

cheers

But what do you need to remove the sprockets, a couple of chainwhips? And stripping the body on the road - you'd have to be very careful indeed not to drop and lose any of that myriad of small bearings. If you carry a removal tool and something goes wrong then any village garage, farmer and even local residents are likely to have the equipment needed to use it never mind the facilities you'd find in an urban area.

[Brucey]

there is a clever way of wrapping the chain that uses the difference in gear ratio between chainring/sprocket combinations to unscrew the smallest sprocket. This is the least tight, especially if you only use top gear going downhills etc.

If you take care you won't lose any balls from the freewheel if you choose to strip it down. Carrying spare balls and pawls in a tandem spares kit is never a bad idea anyway.

You should carry a remover anyway but the last time I had a freewheel problem I reckon there wasn't a farmer or a bench vice within 50 miles... so I can't be relying on other folk to solve a simple problem like that, I fixed it some other way.

cheers

[pete75]

there is a clever way of wrapping the chain that uses the difference in gear ratio between chainring/sprocket combinations to unscrew the smallest sprocket. This is the least tight, especially if you only use top gear going downhills etc.

If you take care you won't lose any balls from the freewheel if you choose to strip it down. Carrying spare balls and pawls in a tandem spares kit is never a bad idea anyway.

You should carry a remover anyway but the last time I had a freewheel problem I reckon there wasn't a farmer or a bench vice within 50 miles... so I can't be relying on other folk to solve a simple problem like that, I fixed it some other way.

cheers

Of course - I was forgetting Bruce Almighty needs no other people....

[Abu Milhem]

The method you have described is exactly what I have used on a tandem freewheel after giving up on vice based approach. Park tool held up though. I was impressed at the efficacy of the breaker bar/half inch socket combination.

[reohn2]

Glad you got it off
From now on in,copper grease on the threads,slacken it off every six months or so .
It sounds like it was that used to being there,it didn't want to be anywhere else

Only had the machine since beginning of May. Not much used when I bought it but the freewheel had been on since it was new in 1993 ish so guess it was used to being there.

IME when we had a tandem with Suzue hubs and a screw on freewheel,I copper greased the threads when I stripped it down,though tight,ours wasn't as difficult as yours ,after which it was easy to remove.

Brucey,yes the Copper grease helps the f/wheel to tighten but it also helps it release too.
You'll note that once shocked and the 'bond'(dry threads) broken,Pete's f/wheel unscrewed easily.No 'bond' and slippery dip copper grease on the threads,it'll unscrew OK in the future .

[Brucey]

I think it is complicated, and that different lubes will do different things over time. Regular disassembly is probably as useful as anything else; if nothing else it will mean that the freewheel isn't likely to be as tight on the hub as might be otherwise.

cheers

[Mick F]

Sightly different tack on this, I wonder if freewheels shouldn't be fitted with some sort of key to stop them turning rather than relying solely on threads.

[[XAP]Bob]

A hard stop near the base of the thread - that's not a bad idea, but it's not been done.

I'm assuming you can't get a freewheel -> splines block

[pete75]

Sightly different tack on this, I wonder if freewheels shouldn't be fitted with some sort of key to stop them turning rather than relying solely on threads.

Maybe but it's extremely unlikely any manufacturer will ever do any further development work on freewheels.

[reohn2]

How long have freewheel's been in production?
People can get them off without too much hassle with the correct tool,the problems begin when they're left in place for years without lube or the lube's dried out and have seen some UK weather .
Correct lube(copper grease) on the threads,and an annual slackening or removal to keep the lube active or removal and regrease there's no worries .

[Mick F]

I agree, I frequently took mine off, but then I'm fastidious about stuff like that. Same as removing the BB and the seat post from time to time. However, tandem FWs must get far tighter than little old me on a bike would get them even if I went for years without slackening them off.

Therefore, maybe tandem maintenance should be to remove the FW once a month.

[Brucey]

that the freewheel thread is as it is, is just an accident. No-one 'designed it' to be used in the way it is, it is a Victorian hangover.

But the idea that ever taking a freewheel off is 'easy' for some folk is just not the case; I'd do one race and it'd be a 200ftlb + struggle, threatening to break the hub, the freewheel, the tool, everything really. My touring bike would be worse (lower gears) and the tandem worse again.

I'd tighten them to about 60ftlb or so and if I didn't pedal too hard on a training ride or something it might come off again without too much of a struggle. But more often I'd feel the freewheel move during an effort and when I did I had a sinking heart, because I knew it'd be a so-and-so to get off again. I broke dozens of removers and quite a few freewheels too. This 'tightening in use' often used to happen if I rode other people's bikes too, and I'd warn them beforehand if I remembered.

In the end I used to leave the freewheel bodies on the hubs unless I absolutely had to remove them, maybe once a year. In the meantime I'd build the freewheel up in situ with different sprockets as required. I used Sun Tour new winner freewheels and these had threaded middle sprockets for some years; these caused their own problems because the #2 sprocket used to end up a dished shape where the threaded #3 pushed against it. If I ever felt the #3 sprocket move I knew I'd have to use the threaded #4 and #5 sprockets in short order thus snugging them down again, else they might end up anywhere. To disassemble the freewheels I had to make some sprocket removers that were about two feet long. I broke those too.

The first day I could afford a decent freehub I went out and bought it. Much easier.

Needless to say if you are not a very powerful rider/tandem crew then you won't have these problems in the same way. But the screw thread is basically a daft idea as it stands; it'd be much better if it were a twin or even three-start thread, because that can't tighten in the same way.

cheers