Extremely tight freewheel removal

[reohn2]

Never had too much of a problem with them.

[MikeF]

I've found a 600mm Sealey Breaker Bar very useful for removing freewheels, but I've never tried removing a tandem one, and for just under £13.50 you can buy a 750mm bar. For even more leverage you can place a piece of suitable tubing over the bar, which was my old method until I bought the Sealey bar. However there is obviously a limit to how much the spokes and hub can stand, but I find it easier and more controllable to apply a relatively small amount of force to a long bar rather a large amount to a short bar.

[reohn2]

... However there is obviously a limit to how much the spokes and hub can stand, but I find it easier and more controllable to apply a relatively small amount of force to a long bar rather a large amount to a short bar.

There's a physical law,''for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction'' I think I'm right in thinking it applies in this case.
If the force that tightens,one or two people pedalling a tandem or solo exerting their maxium force,is X Nm,it then follows that the same freewheel needs the opposite and equal,or slightly more,X Nm force to release it.
If the tightening force doesn't destroy the hub,spokes or rim,unless one or more of those components were at there limit,those components should withstand that X Nm opposing force.
That seems logical to me

The way I've always removed freewheels is to have the tool in the vice facing upward with either the qr skewer or axle nut nipped up finger tight then backed off about half a turn.The rim (with tyre fitted and inflated)is then turned anticlockwise.
It's never failed me,I've no reason to believe that same force can't be exerted by other methods.

[Brucey]

if you are using a breaker bar then there is something to be said for a short one (about 330mm long) because this means that you can react the force almost exactly at the wheel rim. Once the bar gets a lot longer than the wheel radius, you need a second person or some kind of clamp to hold the wheel, because now the far side of the wheel will be lifting.

Having said this, a breaker bar adds forces to the hub (beyond pure torque) that may lead to problems; firstly there is a net vertical force, and second there is a twisting force on the hub (such that the gear side is pushed down and the NDS is pushed upwards). By contrast the method R2 suggests produces almost pure torque, and is similar to the one that I usually use.

The difference is that I've still broken a bench vice, torn another off the bench, and nearly given myself a hernia unscrewing freewheels this way.

If I think it is going to be a real stinker, I put the tool on the wheel with the QR, then put the tool in a deep socket, put a 1/2" square drive tool in the bench vice, and put the socket onto that. This lowers the loads on the bench vice, because the 'lever' in the jaws is much longer than the flats on a typical remover tool. Two-dog removers fail at about 200ftlbs, hollow splined removers go to about 250ftlbs (maybe more if they are good quality) and cheap junky 1/2" square drives start to shear off around 300ftlbs. A good quality 1/2" square drive will do 400ftlbs before it shears off and I can't quite manage that by swinging on a 700C wheel. I have a solid splined tool for really obstinate freewheels. Over 400ftlbs I think something else is going to break anyway.

I normally need at least 150ftlbs to shift a freewheel that I've been using on a solo, and more than this if it has been on a touring bike or a tandem.

cheers

[thirdcrank]

I wrote this before Brucey posted :-

I think that the issue here is that the first tool used broke under the forces applied. A longer lever would have been no additional benefit and the spokes weren't in danger. Happily, a stronger tool worked.

[MikeF]

However not all of us have access to a strong vice, so a bar is the only alternative. Maybe I've never removed an exceptionally tight freewheel.

[Mick F]

Before I had a bench and a vice, I used the "breaker bar technique" without issue.

What I did, was to hold the wheel upright against a door post, and as you apply the pressure, the tyre "bites" into the corner of the door post and floor and gives enough grip.

[LollyKat]

So far a 4-foot sash clamp has always done the job for us.

[MikeF]

So far a 4-foot sash clamp has always done the job for us.

4 foot! That's some leverage!

Before I had a bench and a vice, I used the "breaker bar technique" without issue.

What I did, was to hold the wheel upright against a door post, and as you apply the pressure, the tyre "bites" into the corner of the door post and floor and gives enough grip.

That's what I've found, but my experience is less than Brucey's.

[reohn2]

So far a 4-foot sash clamp has always done the job for us.

I have large selection of quality sash clamps and never gave them a thought

[Brucey]

most of the sash clamps I have seen and used are 'not at all strong' in the context of removing a stubborn freewheel.

For example if you want to produce a modest 100ftlb torque and your remover has 1" flats on it, the loading on the sash clamp jaws will be of the order of one tonne; this is 'a lot' in the context of a sash clamp, I'd have said.

Given that decent sash clamps cost more than other tools that you might use too, I'd say that outside of you having sash clamps to spare, they are a poor choice for this kind of job.

cheers

[pete75]

most of the sash clamps I have seen and used are 'not at all strong' in the context of removing a stubborn freewheel.

For example if you want to produce a modest 100ftlb torque and your remover has 1" flats on it, the loading on the sash clamp jaws will be of the order of one tonne; this is 'a lot' in the context of a sash clamp, I'd have said.

Given that decent sash clamps cost more than other tools that you might use too, I'd say that outside of you having sash clamps to spare, they are a poor choice for this kind of job.

cheers

Supposition.
Lollykat has used them for the job and reports no problems so, personally, I'd take his/her word for it.

[Brucey]

Supposition.
.

what, that 100ftlbs as described requires a sash clamp that will take a tonne?

I think not.

FWIW good quality sash clamps are typically rated around 750kg or so.

You could perhaps use them for holding the wheel, but if the freewheel is at all tight, not the remover, I'd have said. Perhaps that is how Lollykat is using them?

cheers

[breakwellmz]

I`ve always used a similar technique you would use for getting tight car wheel nuts off-get the lever(Usually a half inch drive socket bar)horizontal after jamming the wheel in a corner like Mick does.
By standing on a bar only a foot long i can generate 200ftlb. That`s before putting any`bounce`onto it!
I did break a large half inch drive socket once many years ago trying to undo an Austin 1100 hub nut with the help of a scaffold tube.It turned out to be a LH thread!

[reohn2]

FWIW Record/Irwin 135 cramps are a world away from the cheap stuff.
There's also the cheap ones with an Alu box section bar which IMO would fold under pressure.
All sash cramps aren't made alike IME.