Teeth matters

[Psamathe]

Just to update based on on (nearly complete) experiences: I'm very glad I did not go overseas and am happy with my UK dentist who did the implants. The main reason I am so glad I didn't go overseas is that on several occasions I've had to return a day or two after the procedure due to "snagging" (for want of a better term).

After 1st implant had to pop back next day as a stitch in the gum had come lose (not serious but still a return visit). Then after the "uncovering when dummy posts were fitted (whilst the teeth were being made) had to return urgently as one post was too high and bashing the tooth above. Now, after 1st tooth fitted got to go back Fri as the tooth is actually too low leaving a small gap between it and tooth above.

All return visits were/are "minor" (except the possibility they will have to make a new tooth for the one that is too low), but had I been to somebody overseas these "snagging" visit would have been a nightmare (and expensive). Plus, probably more likely to be "palmed-off" with a tooth too low (and more ready to accept the less than 100% quality due to the additional airfare/hotel costs I would be having to pay to return for another set of impressions, then another visit for fitting new tooth).

Still got one tooth to be checked (too small) and another to be fitted, but today really reaffirmed my thoughts on overseas implants. Just posing to maintain a more complete record should anybody happen across the dental thread on a cycling forum!

Ian

[tyreon]

Thanks for the update Psamathe. Worth reading and reflecting.

Must ask the chap at the T-shop how he got on with his trip to Budapest for dental work: worthwhile,satisfied or no.

My wife reminded me of what the-Aussie-guy was saying the Budapest-dentist was saying to him on my last visit to Budapest. Budapest dentist was saying he was always aware of costs/practice compared to the up-and-coming Indian dentistry industry!! I watched the Real Marigold Hotel on BBC2 the other day: OAP celebrities 'retiring' to India. They 'investigated' some of the private healthcare investigations/operations over there compared to UK. I guess the same comparisons can be made to dentistry.

Saw again adverts in Sunday papers advertising Budapest as capital of dentistry. Mmmmm....

I get your post. Pleased you're pleased. I'm just after one tooth being 'implanted'. As it's not prominent I'm in no hurry to make decision.

From documentaries on operative transgender issues, I see some good-looking gals who were once men having been transformed in Thailand. Still,as I've no wish to transfer gender I guess that's out but to say 'foreign' medical/dental procedures are less than those in GB...but are 3 - 10,000 miles away if things don't turn out as you want them!

[661-Pete]

As it happens, on Wednesday I went in to my local dentist to have a crown fitted (temporary this time; the permanent one in two weeks time). All went very well - I think the skill of the dentist counts for something, seeing as another crown that I had put in several years ago, by a different dentist (in the same practice) came up with problems: it hurt like hell for days afterwards, and I had to subsequently have root canal fillings involving drilling through the crown. Hopefully that won't be needed with the new one!

Anyway I think my current dentist is better at his job than his predecessor. Just a gut feeling I have - and it gives me more confidence....

Whether this is financially the best option, is debatable, I'm not really the best person to voice an opinion. All I can say is, under Denplan I pay just the lab fee, which this time will come to just under £200. That's a lot cheaper than an NHS ceramic crown, but of course I pay a monthly sub to make up for it!

I would agree with Ian, above: keep your dentistry local if you possibly can! Yes I've had to make follow-up visits for things like fillings falling out: at my age such events are pretty much the norm. I certainly wouldn't countenance a trip to Budapest each time! (as it happens, travel to my dentist costs zilch: I go by bike.... ).

[tyreon]

Crowns,fillings...these are 'small fry',incedentales(if you will forgive me). I'm in for 'implants',these are UK£2k jobbies. As said,over at T-shop heqrd of farmer paying £40k for a set of teeth(and which might pay for the trip to Budapest).

At present I'm just looking at having one implant...maybe.

At the T-shop today I asked after the cyclist who was having a 'refit' in Hungary. At the time others said he was over in Budapest. I asked how he was getting on with his 'refits',but others said even if they were dodgy he wouldn't be a person who would admit to it. Having said this,when I last spoke to him9not at great length or depth)he seemed to be okay with the what dental work he was having(tho,as said,maybe he wouldn't admit to faults if he had them). Curious! And annoying!

[Psamathe]

Saw dentist today about the 1st tooth that is too low. He said that, as next one being fitted next week, to wait and check that one as well and then he'll take out the low one and get the technician to raise it a bit. Apparently he makes up a "jig" so technician knows how to modify it. Means I'll lose the tooth for a week (whilst adjustments are made).

And it actually all fits with what he said when he was fitting the 1st tooth - his comment was "test drive it for a bit", so presumably they allow for modifications to get a perfect fit. So if overseas I would be meaning another 2 visits (one to have fitted tooth removed and another to have it refitted after mods).

A nuisance but I've had same sort of thing with my crowns. Technicians do the best they can but even with the impressions they have to make some estimates. Both my crowns have needed "trimming down" on/after having been cemented on.

Ian

[tyreon]

Re above: It's why some Budapest dental seekers go for a couple of weeks: couple o weeks to settle things in if any problems. At same time,Budapest dental practices appear to offer free flight returns for any minor snagging issues.

I'm not selling having dental work abroad...I just think about it. Still thinking about it some 1 year +.

[tyreon]

Whilst watching recent trash tv: I espy young lad having his teeth done. Oh, says tv dentist,we can save a lot of these. Yes,we build em up from the stumps. We take out the nerve and then start making em up with increased fills. At end of dental visit(s),the young guys teeth looked a picture: nice job dun. Nows howsabout when I last went to my dentist: Nah,nuthin I can do here,you'll have to have it out. Mmm...and then I heard on You and Yours how NHS dentists are getting same rate of pay for complex work as for simple jobs. Mmmm...wonder if there's any incentive for dentist to offer me a better outcome or just take out the tooth. My own fault: shoodv asked more questions. By what I saw on the box that tooth could have been saved...and rebuilt. :

[Psamathe]

Well, re being unsure about the height of my implants; did some research and it seems that implants should be slightly lower than natural teeth because natural teeth are held in place through ligaments that have a bit of give in them (when you bits on something or clench your teeth). Implants however are anchored directly into the bone and thus have no give. So bite hard/clench your teeth and is the natural height the bone takes a much higher impact which can cause loss of bone and eventually for the implant to fail. Also, having full "natural" height makes the porcelain more lightly to fracture on sideways forces. This the implant tooth tends to have lower cusps and a flatter surface (it is the height of the valley that is important).

So I decided with mine to get an unofficial 2nd opinion from another implant surgeon before seeing my own dentist. And his opinion was that, if it was his work for one he would raise it a bit and the other probably leave it. Gave me a lot of confidence seeing my own dentist who was quite happy to raise either or both. and if I'm unhappy at any point in the next 2 years, just to call and make an appointment and have them modified.

But it is important to let the mouth settle for a few weeks after 1st fitting as the opposing teeth can/do move out of jaw a bit.

And raising it was easy. Use a bit of gunge to make a "template" of the gap, remove the crown (bit of a struggle to pull it out) - 10 mins appointment, send it away (checked with the 2nd opinion dentist that building it up is 110% strong and does not show), and a week or two later have it fitted back in (5 mins appointment).

But (if anybody still reading) that is another couple of return air-fares and hotel stays to some distant country. So main point is that there are quite possibly a lot more trips to add to the grief and travel costs - offsetting the savings.

Ian

[Psamathe]

Whilst watching recent trash tv: I espy young lad having his teeth done. Oh, says tv dentist,we can save a lot of these. Yes,we build em up from the stumps. We take out the nerve and then start making em up with increased fills. At end of dental visit(s),the young guys teeth looked a picture: nice job dun. Nows howsabout when I last went to my dentist: Nah,nuthin I can do here,you'll have to have it out. Mmm...and then I heard on You and Yours how NHS dentists are getting same rate of pay for complex work as for simple jobs. Mmmm...wonder if there's any incentive for dentist to offer me a better outcome or just take out the tooth. My own fault: shoodv asked more questions. By what I saw on the box that tooth could have been saved...and rebuilt. :( : :x

When I had a similar issue - abscess under tooth, I was offered the option to either have it removed or have it removed. And I said no, what about a root canal filling and crown. And they were not keen but agreed (on NHS). OK, root canal did not work so ended up doing private implants, but saying what you want is essential.

And, when I asked here, people who knew how things worked said how each practice is authorised to do a certain number of each type of treatment each budget period (or contracted to do e.g. so many fillings, so many extractions, so many root canals, etc.). They can go beyond those contracted numbers but have to write a case to the NHS and get it approved - a bit of a nuisance. So the system itself can at times and depending on recent history of what the practice has been doing be some pressure on the dentist to prefer one treatment over others for contractural reasons. I suspect in my case that as I had to wait a fair time for my root canal appointment that they delayed things into the next contractural period and new allowance/contract on everything. BUT, I DO NOT KNOW THIS - I'm just repeating what others have said and it sort of fits with things I've heard from other sources.

Ian

[hondated]

Well the plot thickens ! I have just reread all of the previous posts as I have literally about an hour a go returned from the dentist having had a top denture fitted, To say I am not a happy bunny would be an understatement indeed.
To be fair to my dentist he was meticulous in getting the mould for the plate perfect and he as today spent a long time trimming it to fit my mouth but boy as I sit here writing this it feels flipping awful.
Having paid £500 for a flexible denture I am wondering why they consider it to be flexible as it seems rigid to me.
I have agreed with my wife to give it two weeks to get use to but if I don't it will be thrown to the back of the drawer.
By what I have read the verdict seems to be out on whether to go abroad to get implants done or because of follow up problems to pay the extra
and get it done here.
I too saw the programme that featured the youngster getting his teeth sorted and I can only imagine how much it cost given an implant is £1k.
I am loathe to do it but if necessary if it means its significantly cheaper get a flight over to Prague and get them done there.
Old age is definitely setting in now that's for sure.

[tyreon]

To the dentist this morn for a check up. All clear. But let's take an x ray, he says. Done. With no pain at present he tells me that I have x2 cavities that need to be addressed. He couldn't see them but by x ray?
I am told the next treatment should cost something like £57 or £250(possibly crown?)
I asked how come the cavities arose because I brush teeth x2 pd,don't smoke...etc. I also don't have a full complement of back teeth. He said,just a process of everything breaking down as we age.

I guess it comes down to Trust. I'm taking him at his word that this dental work needs doing. OTOH it would be nice to see if what he says may be contradicted by another dentist. Then we might have one practitioner contradicting another. He had to do work on me he declined before.

If more teeth go it's a difficult choice as to whether to go to Budapest.

I try to keep my inherent 'mis-trust'(?) under wraps. Unfortunately having been 'abused' by a government body,then badly let down by legal and trades union representatives in a weighted legal to-do,I have little faith in due process or fair outcomes(x10).

[Psamathe]

...
I too saw the programme that featured the youngster getting his teeth sorted and I can only imagine how much it cost given an implant is £1k.
I am loathe to do it but if necessary if it means its significantly cheaper get a flight over to Prague and get them done there.
Old age is definitely setting in now that's for sure.

Given my experiences in the UK I would never consider going overseas for cheaper treatment.

£1k is very cheap for an implant.

Ian

[tyreon]

Psamathe: 1K! That sounds reasonable. I was told it would be 1 -2K. With £2k being the probable figure(my bias: since when has a bill come in cheaper?)

You got that right,Psamathe? Just checking!

[millimole]

I had implants done privately a few years ago. The dentist that did them quoted on a fixed price - others quoted 'per hour'. The fixed price deal worked very well for me, as I got a serious gum infection around the newly implanted posts, which then had to be removed, a bone graft done, and new posts fitted before the teeth went on.
This is why I wouldn't want to have major surgery abroad- for fear of complications.
Having said that my current NHS dentist was looking at an X-Ray of my top jaw recently and commented on what a splendid job the dentist had done, but added the rider that "you'd only get that sort of quality work done in Eastern Europe these days" - on questioning this, he said that he wouldn't hesitate to go East to get major dental work done - if he didn't have pals he could depend on to do it at 'mates rates'!


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my iPad using hovercraft full of eels.

[hondated]

To the dentist this morn for a check up. All clear. But let's take an x ray, he says. Done. With no pain at present he tells me that I have x2 cavities that need to be addressed. He couldn't see them but by x ray?
I am told the next treatment should cost something like £57 or £250(possibly crown?)
I asked how come the cavities arose because I brush teeth x2 pd,don't smoke...etc. I also don't have a full complement of back teeth. He said,just a process of everything breaking down as we age.

I guess it comes down to Trust. I'm taking him at his word that this dental work needs doing. OTOH it would be nice to see if what he says may be contradicted by another dentist. Then we might have one practitioner contradicting another. He had to do work on me he declined before.

If more teeth go it's a difficult choice as to whether to go to Budapest.

I try to keep my inherent 'mis-trust'(?) under wraps. Unfortunately having been 'abused' by a government body,then badly let down by legal and trades union representatives in a weighted legal to-do,I have little faith in due process or fair outcomes(x10).

tyreon if you can given my experience I would definitely try to get another examination and the cost if they do agree you need work carried out.