Cycling UK Forum

Hi,

I'm currently biking through France and am looking for a white gas substitute for my stove. I went to a hardware store to try and find "Essence C", which I was told was the best substitute in France. Unfortunately at the shop I was informed that "Essence C" has stopped being made for some reason and that the only similar things they have are "Essence F" or "Alcool a Brûler".

So my question is, will one of those work for my stove? (a whisperlite - not the international model unfortunately, so only runs on white gas)

From looking online, "Alcool a Brûler" seemed like a bad choice, because it's not meant for cooking, and contains methane. But I really couldn't find much about "Essence F", except that it's a good zippo fuel alternative. What is the difference between "Essence C" and "Essence F" anyway?

Thanks for any help on this! (Sorry if there's already an article on this, my internet is very finicky and I wasn't able to find any)

Alcool a bruler is equivalent of meths, for cookers like Trangia. Not suitable. However, I've used whisperlite stoves with unleaded petrol: not sure whether yours will work with this without knowing the precise model. Can you google detailed instructions for your version to find answer, or ask in a camping shop?

Good luck.

Essence C and essence F seem to be very similar to the kind of petrol that is used in petrol lighters, but essence C is more volatile than essence F. Of the two I'd choose Essence F as white gas substitute, but it might not light quite so easily.

Alcool a bruler is, I think, made from unwanted wine (!) and isn't 100% pure ethanol, (containing enough methanol to send you blind, plus other impurities). Despite its name I think it can leave sticky deposits in some burners.

Here
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://wiki.scienceamusante.net/index.php%3Ftitle%3DEssences_hydrocarbures&prev=search
it says that
Essence (gasoline) C is distilled between 70 and 100C
Essence F is distilled between 95 and 170C

Contrast this with the distillation temperature of white gas which is normally quoted as anywhere from 25 to 200 C, meaning that it probably contains a wider range of compounds than Essence C or Essence F.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence_F&prev=search
describes Essence F fairly well.

In case you can't access the latter link it says;

Gasoline F is a mixture of hydrocarbons obtained by the distillation of petroleum , used for degreasing, stain, adhesives cleaning. It is sold in supermarkets and DIY stores in liter bottles. The mention "Essence F" is still on the bottle, but sometimes on the back and small. The trade name may be "detached textile greasy stains" or "benzine".

Besides the stain textiles, it can have other uses. Low volatility and little unpleasant, it is preferred to acetone for degreasing work. It does not attack plastics , it is ideal for cleaning the printer parts (plastic cover, paper pads of training) and do not leave any marks on drying. It can therefore be used to peel off labels on books or other material without damaging it, simply soak the label having peeled if it is plastic.

The essence F is also used by drug addicts or young teenagers in search of well-being feeling for effect "stoned" ("stoned"), but the rehearsals are toxic inhalations or death. Two minutes of prolonged and intense exposure to F sniffing gasoline vapors can lead to the destruction of cells liver , kidney , respiratory and brain .

The essence F is also used as cheaper alternative to recharge type of lighters Zippo .

It comes from the light fraction of the oil and consists of :
alkanes , C7, C8 and C9: 65 to 85%;
alicyclic (probably cycloalkanes ) C7, C8 and C9: 20 to 25%;
aromatics ( toluene , xylene , ethylbenzene .): <14%, and actually rather a lot less because this essence as others say fuels are among the dearomatized on industrial catalogs (even compared to white spirits purest) which is important because these are the most toxic compounds .

best international fuel comparison link;

http://fuel.papo-art.com/

cheers

Essence C is the kiddy. I bought quite a few litres in the bricolage before they stopped selling it. I've not seen it for years. I wouldn't bother with Essence F, it won't go unless you have a fondue

Either white gas from a gear shop or sans plomb for you my son.

19 years ago (this week!) on honeymoon in France on our tandem equipped with a trailer we pulled into a petrol station and parked at a pump. I filled the MSR international fuel can whilst looking to the outside world like I was filling a car. Popped over to pay a few francs to the bemused attendant and then peddled off...

One other thing to try is Aspen 4T, a super-clean petrol substitute. It works a treat in Colemans and my Whisperlite. Typically you can buy it at lawnmower centres. Public gardens often use it to allow motor tools without the ghastly fumes. Don't buy Aspen 2T as it's the two-stroke equivalent.

If you would burn kerosene (often called paraffin in Britain, but I prefer to call it kerosene as well-known under that name in most places) in your stove, why not burn Essence F - it is basically a light grade of kero. The only issue is whether you'd use the petrol jet or the kero jet, because it is kind of in-between. I have successfully burned white spirits, which is similar to Essence F, indeed possibly heavier, using the petrol jet. It grumbled a bit, so maybe I should have tried the kero jet, though it did burn cleanly, something which I have not always achieved with fuel sold as kero. But the circumstance which led me to trying burn white spirits was resolved after one meal, and I didn't need to try again. Worth looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit Also note that if you go to https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence_F and then click "English" it directs you to "White Gas" - but this is because "white gas" is a vague term and what really matters is what is being sold under that name in that jurisdiction. I used white gas (bencina blanca) a lot in Chile, but it was distinctly less nice than Coleman Fuel as sold in Britain or French Essence-C - you had to decant it carefully into your fuel bottle to leave the water blobs and grit behind.

Though if you are going to try burning kero, then you should be aware that kero goes off in about 6 months, and then it won't burn in a multi-fuel stove. Because I do not know the chemical reason for this, I do not know whether it would also apply to other kero-like substances such as white spirit and Essence-F. But, in the case of substances labelled as kero, I can vouch for it from practical experience. We were once given some old kero, not knowing this, and didn't discover it wouldn't burn in the stove until we were wild camping on a remote roadless Scottish island with no alternative method of obtaining dinner other than cooking our ingredients. We were also about an hour's travel from the nearest tree, but fortunately we found a stash of waste wood in a ruin near our camp and could light a campfire.

Are there stoves that will run on white gas but literally not run on petrol? You can't use white gas in a car because it will knock and destroy the valves, but surely stoves aren't that sophisticated. Fumes aside, which are hardly great with white gas, the main reason for not using petrol with some stoves seems to be corrosion damage in the long run. I made very heavy use of an MSR Whisperlite with petrol, including leaded petrol in such countries, and eventually the fuel tube did corrode so badly I felt I should stop using it, as I couldn't say it wouldn't soon start leaking. But in the process I'm sure I'd saved more than enough money (and time in finding the stuff) to pay for a new stove, in comparison to using white gas. But the MSR Dragonfly I have used since doesn't have that fuel tube that passes through the flame, so I'm not sure that it will suffer that corrosion problem, I can't see any problem. I now never buy white gas except in those few countries where it is cheap and readily available.

The MSR international has the advantage of being 'field strippable' meaning that all the extra stuff put in pump petrol can be cleaned out. Running on forecourt unleaded meant a strip and clean every 10 or so uses as it became gummed up in the fuel line.

Kerosene/Paraffin runs good and hot - but you need to pre heat with meths or similar - whereas with unleaded you can preheat with that so no carrying a different fuel. The international is not a very adjustable stove though - primitive compared to my paraffin Optimus - but it will digest and burn just about anything out there.

Not used it for some time now - happy to lend to the OP if you think it will be a show stopper.

I think the corrosion damage that might arise with pump petrol probably occurs because these days most pump petrol contains a proportion of alcohol, and therefore water, and therefore acidic components. This means that they are more likely to corrode (or leave deposits on through charring) a directly heated vaporiser. (i.e. one suitable for very non-volatile fuels) unless it is made of particularly corrosion-resistant materials.

Another reason for not using petrol (or perhaps essence C) is that (unlike Essence F and most kerosene grades) it has some very volatile fractions present. This means that at most ambient temperatures there is an appreciable vapour pressure, and this makes it dangerous in ways that other, less volatile fuels are not. Petrol has a flash point around -40 C, Essence C < 0 C. Coleman fuel and white gas are between the two in terms of flash point but these fuels also contain higher weight fractions than Essence C, so don't behave in quite the same way.

That said I've cooked for seven on a two-burner coleman stove using pump petrol and it was OK. I just didn't fancy making toast on it, because of the potentially more toxic fumes.

BTW typical paraffin is a fraction taken off between 150 and 275C, so it is substantially less volatile than essence F (95-170 C). Paraffin has a flash point of between 30 C and 65 C. After storage it will likely lose its lighter weight fractions which will make it more difficult to light, and will require a higher temperature in the vaporiser to burn OK.

{ edit; NB some multifuel stoves run the vaporiser at a temperature that is only just hot enough for paraffin, and these will probably struggle with old fuel and give charring problems in the vaporiser etc. By contrast my old paraffin primus stove has happily burned paraffin that was decades old....}

Essence F has a flash point ('point d'eclair') around 4 C. This is higher than coleman fuel but not so much that it won't work OK in most devices meant for that, but it won't light so easily.

cheers

Alternatives
Coleman fuel, Aspen 4T, Panel wipe (used to clean car panels before painting). Zippo lighter fluid.
All used in Svea 123R, Optimus 8R, Optimus 111T and Primus multifuel without any problems.

I used unleaded petrol in a Coleman dual fuel stove and lantern for a long time. It works ok, but after a couple of years of occasional use the preheat generator glogged up with carbon. I have read that the additives in the unleaded cause the carbon to build up more quickly than if Coleman fuel was used, for example. but with Coleman fuel at about £50 a gallon, it is cheaper to replace the generator more often.

Do not use what is sold in the UK as white spirit, it is not the same.

As for kerosene going off, i have never experienced that. I have had some jet fuel, that I use in some of my stoves, for years. with no Ill effect. Maybe as said up thread, some of the more volatile elements may have evaporated.
If you think about it, petrolium has been in the ground for millions of years, a couple of years in a jerry can isn't going to make much difference .

I have a stove that Imade from a burner from an Optimus 111, a primus multifuel and a Trangia.

It will run on White gas (or any of the alternatives) kerosene, meths, or screw on gas canisters. Jets do need chnging or an air restrictor tube added, depending on the fuel used.
It is a copy of a stove that was made years ago which was calle the KAP Arctic

Neil

Thanks for all the responses!

So I'm definitely reluctant to use petrol, due to the more toxic fumes. So it seems like my best option is a kerosene or Essence F type fuel? (Unless by some miracle I can actually find some Colman fuel in a camping store) the main drawback to those being the difficulty to light, right?

Just to double check, because a few of you have been talking about the whisperlite international, I do not have the international model (which is a multi fuel stove), I just have the plain old original whisperlite (which is only meant for white gas/Colman fuel), a kerosene type gas should work in that right? Not ideal, but won't blow up, right? (Sorry if I'm dumb about this, I've only ever used Coleman fuel before)

With that, I'm just concerned that I won't be able to get it to light, as many have pointed out...

Aspen 4T sounded almost better, but where would I find that in France? I've never seen a lawnmower store here before. Also, would it still be called Aspen 4T, or would it go by something else?

Again, thanks for everyone's help so far!

Kero would be your last choice, I'd have said, because it is nowhere near volatile enough to light easily or stay lit in a stove designed for white gas.

In terms of likely burn quality in your stove;

Coleman fuel > Essence Alkylate/unleaded > Essence F > Kero

Aspen 4T and similar products may be known generically as 'Essence Alkylate' or similar in France. I would assume that these fuels burn cleaner in stoves just as they do in engines. Some folk report having used this stuff for years with no problems in coleman stoves.

But if essence F is less expensive and more widely available in 1L bottles I'd go with the flow and try that; if it doesn't work as is, it'll probably go OK if you mix it 50:50 with Aspen 4T.

cheers

A quick Google of 'Aspen 4T France' and here is the dealer locator...
http://www.aspen-sas.fr/crbst_1.html

Oh ok. Thanks so much for that store locator, that will be incredibly useful!

I just found something called "pétrole désarômatisé" for cheap, looks like it's meant for lamps. But given its called pétrole, I thought it might work. I'll test it out tonight. Anyone ever heard of that?

If it doesn't work I'll try and get some Aspen 4T/Essence Alkylate.