Measuring Blood Pressure

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Mick F
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by Mick F »

Yes, I follow that ............. and not arguing.

We are all different.
One rule shouldn't dictate for everyone.

What about ethnicity?
Does the 120/80 rule apply for the whole human race?
Mick F. Cornwall
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willcee
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by willcee »

Apologies if i have missed something as i speed read several pages and as someone who takes 5mg Amlodipine +4 mg Perindopril daily, and since my two hip ops in late 18 and 19 have been noticing thicker legs certainly my cycling socks dig in and leave deep rings so much so that i'm changing all my socks to easy ups loose top variety ..my feet have also got slightly bigger maybe 1/4 to a half size. and then i read Micks take on the engineering side and memory came back to me back in 2013/14 i was broom wagen and go for mechanic for 6 Indian Docs all naturalised Americans, over in Ulster on a week long ycling trip supported by my friends touring company, all specialists and consultants they had been at one of the big USA medical universities together, all guys at or near the top of their respective specialist careers working Stateside , great guys great craic and we had quite a few hours daily eating travelling.. they knew i was a car guy and they were the first chaps that i discussed EV's with as 3 of them had Teslas, the chat came around to BP one day as i had mentioned my daily dose , at the time i was perhaps 195 lbs fit 65 year old with slightly high BP. my take and i had this discussion with the one who was sat beside me in my estate car was that when I was hillclimbing and sprinting in a l/wt Golf, we could build 3 race engines from scratch and they could present when built with anything up to 40/45/55/65 oil pressure when running 5/6k rpm this with fed capillary race type pressure guage yet each one had the same oil pump the same internal drillings and everything we built was cleaned out with long wires and high pressure hot water until the block or heads got so warm you couldn't touch them, so every thing was clinically clean before during and after build..
SO my heart and veins and yours may be similar but not exactly the same so why hold 120/80 .. it was the American docs doing checks on thousands of conscripts during the mass conscriptions in both WW's he said. so while its a recognised measurement it's not exactly accurate but it does give indication that something needs looked after age obviously taken into account.. w
S2L
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by S2L »

Mick F wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 4:15pm Yes, I follow that ............. and not arguing.

We are all different.
One rule shouldn't dictate for everyone.

What about ethnicity?
Does the 120/80 rule apply for the whole human race?
We pretty much work in the same way. I would be surprised if a dog or a cat was very different from us in that respect
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Mick F
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

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Thanks guys! :D
All good info.
It's only plumbing after all eh?

Next question, why do you have to sit down when taking your BP?
Dunno about most people, but I don't spend my life sitting down.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 3:30pmJust say the heart is bigger and stronger than the average heart and the arteries are stronger too.
This means that the calibration of the BP monitor isn't correct and you could show high BP.
Say a small weak heart and thin arteries, and the BP could show low.

Valid?
There are two different questions there, one about physiology and one about metrology.

Does arterial stiffness differ between people or the same person over time or with disease?
Yes. And it's a very active area of research and technical development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arterial_stiffness

Is measurement by sphygmomanometry affected by arterial stiffness, and therefore the results liable to differ from those obtained with a reference method such as intra-arterial measurement?
Potentially. But there's not a lot of studies because intra-arterial methods are invasive, and no-one is going to use them on patients without a very good reason.

But there are a lot of studies on whether traditional methods of sphygmomanometry (mostly auscultatory) give different results from automated (mostly oscillometric) methods. They do.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 13 Feb 2022, 5:53pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 4:49pmNext question, why do you have to sit down when taking your BP?
You don't. It depends on the purpose of measurement.

For many purposes sitting down is convenient and reduces physiological variation.

But measuring blood pressure both standing and sitting or sitting and lying is a useful test for postural hypotension and for hypovolaemia.

Jonathan
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

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Mick F wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 4:15pmWhat about ethnicity?
Does the 120/80 rule apply for the whole human race?
All guidelines are compromises. Including this one. Practicality being one of the highest priorities. That's why it has round numbers...

The question is unanswerable unless you define the purpose of the "rule" and how you'd establish the decision values to best address that purpose.

Jonathan

PS: Ethnicity is used in the current NICE guidelines for treatment.
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng136/ ... pertension
Last edited by Jdsk on 13 Feb 2022, 5:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jdsk
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by Jdsk »

willcee wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 4:28pm SO my heart and veins and yours may be similar but not exactly the same so why hold 120/80 .. it was the American docs doing checks on thousands of conscripts during the mass conscriptions in both WW's he said. so while its a recognised measurement it's not exactly accurate but it does give indication that something needs looked after age obviously taken into account..
You can describe the reference population with that sort of descriptive study. But clinical guidelines also need to take into account our best attempts at deciding what decision points will give the best outcomes, especially now that so many treatments are available. So clinical studies are also needed.

Jonathan
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

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S2L wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 3:37pm... all athletes with strong heart and vascular system show lower than normal blood pressure.
It certainly isn't the case that all athletes have lower blood pressure than appropriate controls.

It may not even be the case that there's a tendency that way, eg:

That said, the overall conclusion was that there isn't a major systematic difference between athletes and non-athletes. Of the 16 studies that compared athletes to non-athlete controls, athletes had higher blood pressure on average in seven of the studies and lower in nine of them. If you break the results down further, you find that strength-trained athletes have slightly higher blood pressure than endurance-trained athletes. There may also be a slight effect where training more than 10 hours a week produces higher blood pressure, but this difference wasn't statistically significant.

https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/health/ ... -pressure/

That's based on the results of a systematic review published in 2015:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25631543/

Jonathan
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by rualexander »

S2L wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 4:30pm
We pretty much work in the same way. I would be surprised if a dog or a cat was very different from us in that respect
Similar ball park figures except for giraffes etc.
But dogs and cats seem to have a wide range of acceptable normal values.

Animal Systolic Diastolic
Dogs * 110-160. 85-120
Cats 110-160. 85-120
Mice 120. 71
Rats 129 91
Giraffe 280 180
Horse 112±14 70±14
Elephant 178.6 +/- 2.9 118.7 +/- 3.10
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Mick F
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

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Having had a few dogs, I've never considered their BP before.

Just had our 3yo Border Collie on my lap and felt for a pulse ................ anywhere.
Can feel the heart beating, but skinny legs fore and aft, seems like there isn't a pulse you could measure by wrapping on a BP monitor strap.

I wouldn't even consider trying to find a pulse on any of our three cats. One of them is so laid back, I doubt he's even got a detectable beating heart.

What about the parrot?
What BP does an African Grey supposed to have? :lol:
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

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Mick F wrote: 15 Feb 2022, 6:37pmWhat about the parrot?
What BP does an African Grey supposed to have?
"Birds have relatively large hearts and thick vessels. The reduced elasticity of the arterial walls means SAP is usually much higher in birds than in mammals. 12 Normal pressures range between 90-180 mm Hg in conscious psittacine birds. Normal SAP for psittacine birds under isoflurane or sevoflurane anesthesia is 90-150 mm Hg. Systolic blood pressure readings < 90 or > 145 mm Hg should be evaluated for causes of possible hypotension and hypertension respectively in psittacine birds."
https://lafeber.com/vet/blood-pressure/

Jonathan
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
My old dog sat down once on the beach :?
He never sat down on the beach, he aged ten years in a mater of seconds (he was 12 at the time) felt his heat hand on chest.........25 BPM :o

Went straight to the vet, he thought it might be a sting or something, heart rate had returned to normal 75 or so and of course very intermittent ie irregular beat, which is normal in large fit dogs.
Problem persisted so back to the vet, fortunately a recent graduate vet diagnosed av block.

Sometime later and 2K lighter a used human pacemaker fitted :)
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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Mick F
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by Mick F »

Collected a pack of Doxazosin 2mg tablets today.
The leaflet has a very long list of side effects. Common, and less common.
Huge list! :shock:

Main thing I noticed with my wry sense of humour, the common list (1 in 10) has "sleepiness" in the list.
The less common (1 in 100) has "sleeplessness" in the list! :lol:

Having the first tablet as I go to bed tonight.
Sleep well ............. or not eh? :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Measuring Blood Pressure

Post by thirdcrank »

thirdcrank wrote: 8 Feb 2022, 10:43am My completely non-medical advice is to stop reading the potential side effects. Obviously, if you do become ill, through taking medication or otherwise, get medical help.

I must have posted before that as a male since birth, I've had the symptoms of pregnancy several times, including a swelling tum. (At the same time, try to stop ignoring the well-known side effects of sherbet.)
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