Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist ?

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Vantage
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby Vantage » 18 Jun 2015, 10:19am

Sorry to join the witch hunt, but as others have said, you should really have been further away from the kerb. If not only to try and prevent a close pass (s/he probably would have cut in anyway) but to give yourself some bailout room. It is not a criticism, but advice.
I made the same mistake myself last year and posted the close passing truck video on here and was given the same advice.
As far as I'm concerned, the motoring masses in this nation have already won and all we can do as cyclists is look out for our own *****.
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2015, 10:20am

Mick F wrote:
A1anP wrote:If you look at the SLOW painted on the road just before the lorry overtake, the rider seems to be heading over the S. I don't do an awful lot of driving in busy traffic, but that's where I'd probably put myself. Should he have been riding over the L or even further out?

Edit: look about 29 seconds in
This is a subject I've been thinking about raising many times on here over the years.

I was going to ask folk which letter in SLOW they ride over. More often than not (in traffic), I hit the gap between the S and the L.


But it al depends on the width of the lane in which SLOW is written.The writer fits the word SLOW into the width of the lane.
The width of the lane shouldn't determine where to ride the curb does.
I ride a minimum 700mm from the curb or road edge,when the road is wider and the debris is further into the road I ride wider.
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Mick F
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby Mick F » 18 Jun 2015, 10:53am

reohn2 wrote:But it al depends on the width of the lane in which SLOW is written.The writer fits the word SLOW into the width of the lane.
The width of the lane shouldn't determine where to ride the curb does.


I agree, but more often than not in the urban environment, SLOW is a standard size and font. If it does vary, it's not by much.
The point I make, is that going over the S is too far to the left IMHO.
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby kwackers » 18 Jun 2015, 11:08am

Mick F wrote:I agree, but more often than not in the urban environment, SLOW is a standard size and font. If it does vary, it's not by much.
The point I make, is that going over the S is too far to the left IMHO.

If the font is constant then variations in the width of the road would mean the S position would vary anyway.
Not sure it's a valid measurement for positioning. My positioning is usually where the track created by vehicles left hand tyres is.

I had a lorry this morning come storming past me on Renshaw Street in Liverpool, had I put my hand out to indicate right I'd have lost my arm at the elbow - and that's after I'd moved left because I heard him coming, saw the oncoming traffic and figured it might not be a bad idea.
It was a tipper lorry though, so no prizes in guessing why it was driven like that nor why they're disproportionately represented in cyclist accidents.
(Yesterday on the same street a taxi used the bus cutout to get past by undertaking rather than wait for a gap in oncoming traffic. I wouldn't mind but on that street I'm too far left anyway due to the 'pill' speedbumps).

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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby sore thumb » 18 Jun 2015, 11:11am

I've got rear camera footage as well so I might post that.

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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2015, 11:16am

Mick F wrote:......... SLOW is a standard size and font. If it does vary, it's not by much.

That's not my experience.

The point I make, is that going over the S is too far to the left IMHO.

That's not my experience.

It wherever I ridden in the UK I've not seen it as a standardised width but squeezed into narrow lanes and widened to fit wide lanes,though I do agree riding over the 'S' is too far to the left.
FWIW The upright on the 'L' tends to be nearer to my riding position but as it's usually a raise hump much similar to central white lines,go a little wider and over the foot of the 'L' more so when it's wet.
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jun 2015, 11:20am

sore thumb wrote:I've got rear camera footage as well so I might post that.


Please do it'll indicate how close the truck is when s/he begins to overtake.
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby A1anP » 18 Jun 2015, 12:08pm

I can't say I know anything about the variability in size of SLOW signs painted on roads, but the idea was in this particular example where would you position yourself? I find it helps to have a practical example. Normally, I would try to cycle where the left wheels of cars tend to go, as was suggested earlier. The faster the traffic behind is moving, the harder I find it to hold an assertive position...
Going upwards at 45 degrees...

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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby stork » 18 Jun 2015, 12:36pm

That's an appalling bit of driving, and I hope that A Hingley Transport take it seriously.

We shouldn't forget that the primary responsibility not to knock you off your bike, or intimidate or threaten you, or to take unacceptable risks, lies with the person operating the vehicle which is overtaking.

Nevertheless, this sort of incident always raises questions amongst those posting here, and often in the mind of the rider themselves, about their road positioning. Position can influence the behaviour of other road users as well as providing a margin of error.

It's all to easy to jump to conclusions on the basis of a bit of headcam footage. Personally, I find it very difficult to judge the position of a bike on the road on the view from a camera. We don't know where the camera is (top of the helmet, or one side or the other), and in some cases we dont' really know whether it's on the bike or the rider. I know from my own videos that my position looks different to me when I watch it on screen than when I'm sitting in the saddle.

However, there is a momentary tell-tale sign at about 21 seconds in the video, where we see the OP's front wheel only just outside the drainage gulley. I was actually surprised to see it that close to the edge of the road just then, as I had thought (from the rest of the footage) that the position was a bit further from the edge than that. But even that doesn't necessarily tell us anything. I'd rarely have my front wheel that close to the edge, but it might drift that way momentarily, for example to avoid a pothole or drain cover or to enter my safety margin if someone's overtaking too close.

Let us know what the company's response is.

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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby Postboxer » 18 Jun 2015, 12:42pm

E-petitions is still down after the general election. I was going to search to see if there was one titled 'Declare War on Motorists' yet.

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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby foxyrider » 18 Jun 2015, 12:56pm

Mick F wrote:
A1anP wrote:If you look at the SLOW painted on the road just before the lorry overtake, the rider seems to be heading over the S. I don't do an awful lot of driving in busy traffic, but that's where I'd probably put myself. Should he have been riding over the L or even further out?

Edit: look about 29 seconds in
This is a subject I've been thinking about raising many times on here over the years.

I was going to ask folk which letter in SLOW they ride over. More often than not (in traffic), I hit the gap between the S and the L.


O or even W then they have to go SLOW or go through me and i don't think many actually want to do the latter - it involves paperwork and even more delay getting to Tesco!
Convention? what's that then?
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby pwa » 18 Jun 2015, 1:02pm

I think the OP misunderstands some of the replies. Everyone has blamed the driver. Nobody has blamed the OP. Suggestions about positioning the bike further out are just meant as advice on defending against the bad driving shown in the video.

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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby [XAP]Bob » 18 Jun 2015, 2:07pm

sore thumb wrote:It's funny isn't it that it's a reflection of society that the first thing we do is criticise the victim because of a few inches.

Shows what a vehicle society we are and its influence it has on us even as cyclists.

Not criticism - just advice on how to avoid similar situations in the future.

We've all been given the advice by someone with more experience that us at some point. When used properly it does genuinely help. You'll occasionally get a motorist who is so enraged that they use the horn - but that means they have seen you and acknowledged your presence, which is a good thing.
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby horizon » 18 Jun 2015, 2:21pm

I've tried to find the word SLOW in a dictionary without any success. I finally found it in an old Department for Transport handbook under acronyms:

Speed Lovers On Wheels

or something like that.

Usually I ride over the W and point downwards to the sign for the following car. But no-one really knows what SLOW means.
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Re: Is it a, see how close we can get the HGV to the cyclist

Postby sore thumb » 19 Jun 2015, 5:57pm

The company have not made contact with me at all.

Obviously safety of the general public is of upmost importance.


I really do hope it was not A Hingley Transport company that told me to "No.. F*** off and get a life"

You can see the comment to my video here

http://youtu.be/kTkWPxxW28Q

A reputable company would surely not say something like that to a concerned member of the public over the safety standards of one of its HGV drivers? Surely they take safety seriously?