When did Shimano quality fall?

[pete75]

sun tour groupsets were also 'cobbled together' and so (effectively) were campag ones, for years. Their bits were partially (or wholly) made in all kinds of places... I dunno how much shimano stuff is/was subbed out....

I think the end came for the French road stuff when they failed to react to the shimano 600SIS groupset; suddenly the best French stuff was basically out-performed by second-tier shimano kit. Cheaper, more durable, worked better. Hard to beat that....

cheers

I don't know who actually used Spidel. I have an early eighties Peugeot PX10N which is original apart from the tyres. The only components branded Spidel are the brake levers. Chain set Stronglight , brakes Mafac, gear levers Simplex, hubs Maillard and gears Simplex branded Peugeot. Probably all the components in a Spidel group but if Peugeot weren't using the lot as Spidel then who on earth was?

Some of the components are quite lovely particularly the Stronglight 106 chain set which has to be one of the most elegant designs ever albeit a copy of Nuovo Record with some subtle restyling.

[Mick F]

This is nice.
http://campyonly.com/history/1974/record.pdf

[Brucey]

I don't know who actually used Spidel..... if Peugeot weren't using the lot as Spidel then who on earth was?

Some of the components are quite lovely particularly the Stronglight 106 chain set which has to be one of the most elegant designs ever albeit a copy of Nuovo Record with some subtle restyling.

Lovely though they are, I think the 106 cranks also crack just like the campag ones will (eg in the throats between the RH crank and the spider arms), so do keep an eye on them. If/when a cracks starts , filing/polishing it out to a generous radius may well prevent a recurrence.

I only ever saw a few Spidel groups (boxed ready for sale) and/or bikes that had them fitted. Sometimes every part in the group was spidel branded, other times not. It was a somewhat chaotic time for French bike makers, because they were in the process of (effectively) ditching the widespread use of French-spec bike threads. I suspect that there is an interesting (and largely unknown) snippet of cycling history there.

cheers

[Samuel D]

I often find myself caught in the gap between unaffordable and disposable.

Me too! So very much so. It causes me endless misery. I hate the disposable rubbish being sold everywhere these days. I suspect junk was widely available in the ‘good old days’ too (I’m 33 and can certainly remember junk in the ’90s), but the difference is that high-quality stuff was only proportionally more expensive, whereas today anything that is genuinely nicely made – a leather bag, a wooden table, a mechanical watch, a Leica camera – is up to 100 × more expensive than the disposable equivalent and marketed as a luxury product. The irony is that the rich buy these things in part for status, sometimes not even recognising the tangible merits of the products.

People like me, who appreciate good materials and good workmanship but have a strictly limited budget, are the ones worst served by today’s consumer market.

Shimano on the other hand is a welcome exception to this rule, they sell goods that solve the problem at a good price.

I agree again. Shimano is one of the good guys.

This is nice.
http://campyonly.com/history/1974/record.pdf

It certainly is. Look at those pump heads!

[hamster]

...........
Yep but didn't they peak some years ago - maybe when trying to out do Sunrace?

Possibly when they pinched the slant parallelogram idea from SunTOUR to make the first working indexed gear.....not that indexing is needed.

You mean when slant parallelogram's patent expired.

Shimano's freehub designs remain a work of genius making bombproof stuff with really excellent sealing. Sadly the pursuit of lightness and oversized aluminium axles has negated that somewhat. Similarly their thumbshifters are indestructible, I'm still using a set I bought in 1990. The modern disc brakes are superb too in value for money and performance.
Against that their chainrings are pathetically soft and my experience is that the chains (while very smooth and silent) have pitifully short lives.

[Sweep]

Against that their chainrings are pathetically soft and my experience is that the chains (while very smooth and silent) have pitifully short lives.

Whose chainrings do you prefer hamster?

[mercalia]

Have just had dealings with some 1990's? Shimano RSX shifters. Virtually unused, they weren't working because the grease had solidified locking the pawls. Not only do they appear better made but they also shift more nicely than the Ultegra 6800 shifters on a bike I bought last year. The change is far more positive with a firm feel and click rather than the mushy feel of modern Shimano.

and these were the bottom of the range groupset. I like the chunky sti, big enough to get your mitts around? and the whole system just looks very nice unlike the recent stuff that just says space-age-hi-tech-go-fast ( rather embarrassing) ? Its a shame the 8 speed stuff wasnt available for long - just 2 years?- as the triple dont use trimming and works well without it?

[hamster]

Against that their chainrings are pathetically soft and my experience is that the chains (while very smooth and silent) have pitifully short lives.

Whose chainrings do you prefer hamster?

TA, they seem to last 3x longer. Middleburn or Stronglight are really good too!

[georgew]

Against that their chainrings are pathetically soft and my experience is that the chains (while very smooth and silent) have pitifully short lives.

Whose chainrings do you prefer hamster?

TA, they seem to last 3x longer. Middleburn or Stronglight are really good too!

The last bit of research I read on the "hardness" of chain-rings was by Frank Berto and was a long time ago. He found that Campag led the field in the they used the best material.

[Sweep]

Against that their chainrings are pathetically soft and my experience is that the chains (while very smooth and silent) have pitifully short lives.

Whose chainrings do you prefer hamster?

TA, they seem to last 3x longer. Middleburn or Stronglight are really good too!

Thanks, i asked as i had to change a shimano alivio middle ring the other day somewhat sooner than i thought i would have to.

[Mick F]

This is nice.
http://campyonly.com/history/1974/record.pdf

It certainly is. Look at those pump heads!

Yum!

[blackbike]

Thanks, i asked as i had to change a shimano alivio middle ring the other day somewhat sooner than i thought i would have to.

Yes, but wiggle do the alivio middle ring for £8.99 at the moment.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-104-pcd ... chainring/

Here's the TA one at £28.69, over 3 times as much.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ta-104-pcd-chin ... chainring/

For the money Shimano has always been good value in my opinion.

[ChrisButch]

This is nice.
http://campyonly.com/history/1974/record.pdf

It certainly is. Look at those pump heads!

Still got one of those. The ability to grip pumphead and tyre with one hand while pumping with the other gave a more stable valve seal than any cam connector, with less fuss.

[mercalia]

FWIW I took a peek inside a set of Claris shifters recently, and the clicky bits didn't seem that far removed from Ultegra 8s ones from way back when.

cheers

well they wouldnt want the newbie cyclist to buy a new speedster and have the gears fail - put them off the fashion trail of upgrading?

[Brucey]

re chainrings; Dura-Ace chainrings have been better quality (harder material) than other shimano for years. Some even come electroless nickel plated. They are similarly priced to other decent quality chainrings I guess, and last about the same too.

Harder chainrings are IMHO a mixed blessing, in that harder aluminium alloys are also less corrosion resistant, by and large. Even when anodised or plated, I've seen many winter bike horrors.

Whatever the chainrings are made of, the thing that wears them fastest of all is a worn chain, especially if it is also dirty.

Many people ditch their chainrings too early IMHO. Softer chainrings can be used with multiple new chains until the teeth look like little daggers; provided the chains are not allowed to stretch too far, the shape of working side of the tooth profile is preserved well enough. I've very rarely had any running issues from using 'worn chainrings'.

cheers