When did Shimano quality fall?

[hamster]

Yes, but wiggle do the alivio middle ring for £8.99 at the moment.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-104-pcd ... chainring/

Here's the TA one at £28.69, over 3 times as much.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ta-104-pcd-chin ... chainring/

For the money Shimano has always been good value in my opinion.

That Alivio ring is steel. Fair enough, it will last for ages, probably great for a commuter bike, but a Shimano Aluminium one is SLX, which is around £20, so £* extra for a 3x longer-lasting ring makes sense. Even Deore uses a steel middle ring as a cost saving.

[hamster]

Many people ditch their chainrings too early IMHO. Softer chainrings can be used with multiple new chains until the teeth look like little daggers; provided the chains are not allowed to stretch too far, the shape of working side of the tooth profile is preserved well enough. I've very rarely had any running issues from using 'worn chainrings'.

cheers

Interesting thing to ponder! I assumed that a worn chainring reduces chain life as all the load is then placed onto the first two links' rollers. I've always found that I get chainsuck problems with worn rings.

[pete75]

provided the chains are not allowed to stretch too far, the shape of working side of the tooth profile is preserved well enough. I've very rarely had any running issues from using 'worn chainrings'.

cheers

Brucey I'd expect you , of all people, not to perpetuate the myth that chains stretch.

[mercalia]

when did shimano quality take a nose dive? some time after un52 square bb was phasesed out. Just replaced witha new un55 and not half as smooth as the original was.

[TimP]

The quality of Shimano components has fallen IMO - I just wondered if anyone knows when it started. Once the STI shifters had aluminium bodies now they all seem to be plastic for example. Once the bottom brackets lasted for many thousands of miles now they don't because they put the bearings in the way of mud, wet and other crap - surely a drop in quality?[/quote]

Well, I used Shimano 500, 600 and a couple of others way back when before I switched to Suntour Cyclone GT mechs but I still use the Shimano levers. The Shimano mechs wouldn't handle the touring gears as well as Suntour. This was in the 70s (my bike was purchased in 1975). I still use the 2 bikes I had from the 70s - both on the gears and bottom brackets from then too. One set of wheels are from then too and the hubs in the other set are as well.

Both bottom brackets are so old I can't remember what band they are. Chainsets and one headset are also from the 70s. This is not a case of having repaired and replaced bits over time. They have been used and abused but they still keep working.

From this conversation thread am I to take it that I should stick with what I have as it will go on to outlive even new stuff of today? I was planning to change for a frame a couple of inches bigger and using STI shifters (I'm tired of downtube shifters - especially as a 6 footer using a 20 inch frame. (Very long seat stem and bar extension)

[[XAP]Bob]

provided the chains are not allowed to stretch too far, the shape of working side of the tooth profile is preserved well enough. I've very rarely had any running issues from using 'worn chainrings'.

cheers

Brucey I'd expect you , of all people, not to perpetuate the myth that chains stretch.

Chains stretch - through the wear of rollers rather than the extension of individual links.

[pete75]

provided the chains are not allowed to stretch too far, the shape of working side of the tooth profile is preserved well enough. I've very rarely had any running issues from using 'worn chainrings'.

cheers

Brucey I'd expect you , of all people, not to perpetuate the myth that chains stretch.

Chains stretch - through the wear of rollers rather than the extension of individual links.

Chains wear they do not stretch. They may become elongated but that is caused by wear not by any stretching.
As the late Jobst Brandt said "Riders often speak of "chain stretch," a technically misleading and incorrect term. Chains do not stretch, in the dictionary sense, by elongating the metal by tension. Chains lengthen because their hinge pins and sleeves wear. "

[Brucey]

is it too late to apologise for my appalling terminological inexactitude...?

and to point out that I am not alone in my sloppy use of language...



I think we lack a synonym for this that is more precise but isn't so clumsy; elongated, extended, dilated, distended... none quite conjure up the right image, do they...?

I suspect that the lack of words that accurately describe a specific state of wear or decay may have lead to the more widespread use of various words and phrases of (ahem) 'adjectival derivation', [many of which would be automatically filtered on this forum] which are used in an inexact way to describe 'a poor state of repair'. For example;

'knackered'
'jiggered'
'stuffed'
'all to cock'

Or the somewhat more obscurely originated 'banjaxed'

so are there any suggestions for a suitable (and more specific) chain wear adjective...?

cheers

[colin54]

Well sausages are links, so how about ' sausaged ' for a worn chain ?

[pete75]

is it too late to apologise for my appalling terminological inexactitude...?

and to point out that I am not alone in my sloppy use of language...



I think we lack a synonym for this that is more precise but isn't so clumsy; elongated, extended, dilated, distended... none quite conjure up the right image, do they...?

I suspect that the lack of words that accurately describe a specific state of wear or decay may have lead to the more widespread use of various words and phrases of (ahem) 'adjectival derivation', [many of which would be automatically filtered on this forum] which are used in an inexact way to describe 'a poor state of repair'. For example;

'knackered'
'jiggered'
'stuffed'
'all to cock'

Or the somewhat more obscurely originated 'banjaxed'

so are there any suggestions for a suitable (and more specific) chain wear adjective...?

cheers

I think the word you want begins with F and rhymes with cooked, though maybe worn out is a good as anything.

[colin54]

Checking for str... sorry elongation, I think this chain passed by the testers demeanour.

http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/butche ... s-11134322

' Sausaged ' ; you know it makes sense . e.g ' Them links is cooked, they're proper sausaged they are '.

[Lance Dopestrong]

Beyond a certain price level Shimmy systems as durable as ever to me.

[ChrisButch]

is it too late to apologise for my appalling terminological inexactitude...?

No need to apologise, since there's nothing etymologically awry about using 'stretch' in this context. Although commonly used to imply elasticity, it does not necessarily do so. The elongation of any object by the application of force is an historically legitimate usage, documented by the OED.

[Tonyf33]

You mean when slant parallelogram's patent expired.

Shimano's freehub designs remain a work of genius making bombproof stuff with really excellent sealing. Sadly the pursuit of lightness and oversized aluminium axles has negated that somewhat. Similarly their thumbshifters are indestructible, I'm still using a set I bought in 1990. The modern disc brakes are superb too in value for money and performance.
Against that their chainrings are pathetically soft and my experience is that the chains (while very smooth and silent) have pitifully short lives.

Don't know which Shimano rings you are using or for what style of cycling but my own experience is quite the opposite.
Shimano alloy middle ring used under extreme duress and approx 7k miles and barely worn

[CREPELLO]

Probably because they are sold pre-worn these days to aid shifting.