Raleigh 555 cycle tubing

[jimlews]

Does anyone know what this stuff is.

Google and other forums lead to speculation and guesswork (at least admitted to be such). Seems to have been used by Raleigh USA sometime during the '90s.

Variously suggested to be re-branded Ishiwata or Reynolds 501

Any of the 'wise owls' on this site have a definitive answer?

And does it enhance or reduce the value of a bike so labelled ? i.e. is it as good or better than the above mentioned or R 531

[colin54]

It is described as Chrome Moly in Raleigh USA's catalogue entry for their Portage Model with double butted frame tubes in this instance. The Portage was their top line 650B

tourer at the time.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleig ... rtage.html

There is one for sale on ebay at the moment ; is this why you asked ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raleigh-USA-P ... 2a53f66d9c

Pretty rare in this country I would have thought.

Some good pictures of the frame labels and an interesting article on restoring one here.

http://simplicityvintagecycles.com/2015 ... n-part-iv/

[colin54]

Part 1 of the same article gives some better info..

http://simplicityvintagecycles.com/2013 ... alog-1984/

[Brucey]

what you need to realise is that by this time 'the Raleigh company of America' were nothing to do with Raleigh in the UK, being wholly owned by a company that systematically went about trading on the latter's reputation without necessarily adhering to it's engineering standards or manufacturing heritage in the same way.

So when you read the catalogue it waffles on about

'Raleigh bicycles being manufactured according to standards established, engineered and monitored by ...experts based in Dayton Ohio'

and that the '555 frame tubes' are

'designed and engineered in the USA'

what this actually means is that these bicycles were most likely made in Japan. Now I happen to think there is nothing wrong with that per se (I've toured on a mass-produced Japanese frame from the 1980s and it was a nice ride, nothing wrong with it at all) but I would not for a single moment look to compare one of these with something out of the lightweight facility let alone the SBDU. So if you want a top quality Raleigh, you should perhaps buy one that is a Raleigh, not just one that has Raleigh stickers on it.

The idea that theses tube might be rebranded Reynolds ones is just ludicrous; they've probably infringed Reynold's copyright (they only did this sticker for a while, I would imagine that some lawyers had a quiet word) and are intentionally hiding the true origins of both the frame and the tubing used to make it.

I also note with interest that these bikes -despite supposedly being designed to 'withstand use and storage under the most severe weather conditions'- came with a gizmo that locks the front wheel for loading, on a down-tube braze-on specially for the purpose. This gizmo can only ever work when the bike has no mudguards on, which tells you everything about the target market; they are not going to be 'using the bike under the most severe weather conditions'....

On a practical note these bikes came with 27" wheels. It is not clear to me that the canti-braze-ons are positioned such that 700C wheels would be a shoe-in. In fact the bosses look kind of high up and they are close together too (in the old style) which means that you would need to be careful choosing brakes to work at all. I've put bosses on touring frames such that either wheel size can be used and with that model of brake fitted and 27" wheels, the brake blocks should be at the top of the adjusting slots, not nearer the bottom as depicted in the catalogue (which isn't obvious BTW- you need to have seen these brakes before to know what you are looking at).

So caveat emptor... don't believe the (30 year old) hype....

cheers

[greyingbeard]

theres an awful lot of mystique and plain old cobblers in cycling, always has been.
Seems to work though.

[colin54]

Just to confuse the issue ;this label 555R this time not 555T, but described as Manganese...' Supplied by TI Reynolds Birmingham England' and made in England by the description on the label.

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vinta ... -pics.html

Strange they mention Reynolds on one label ( and not the other ; Cro- Mo tube sets sourced elsewhere perhaps ).

If you search 555 tubing..images... it comes up variously with pics of Hi Ten 555 on an Emelle ; 555SL on a made in Japan US Raleigh Super Course , a 555 frame sticker

with' Toshiba 555 ' tubing , 555 SL on a Raleigh made in Taiwan frame etc ... etc

on it . I should think that the frame tube sets were most likely sourced wherever the frames were manufactured, to Raleigh U.S's spec's.


I knew Raleigh U.S was a different company Brucey, I got kind of interested in these Portages a while back for some reason.

Go, as they say over the pond, figure.

[breakwellmz]

I seem to remember that 531 referred to the percentages of the alloying elements added to give the tubing the desired qualities, i assume 555 has no such connection.Do any of the other Reynolds numbers?

[gaz]

The idea that theses tube might be rebranded Reynolds ones is just ludicrous; they've probably infringed Reynold's copyright (they only did this sticker for a while, I would imagine that some lawyers had a quiet word) and are intentionally hiding the true origins of both the frame and the tubing used to make it.

Would you trust this sticker?

[jimlews]

Thanks fella's for your prompt responses. Obviously the CTC Forum never sleeps! ( insert emoticon of choice)

Especial thanks to Colin; the catalogue links are most useful and probably as far as we can get, short of a response from someone in the Raleigh USA purchasing dept. of the time. Yes it was 'that' ad. prompted my post. I'm not in the market for another bicycle; I already have a more than ample 'stable'. But it is good to know that something worthwhile came out of the rape of Raleigh Industries - in this case some fresh thinking - 650B being the traditional choice of the French 'Constructeurs'; Rene Hurse etc.

And Brucey thanks also; I take on board your caveat and comments re: Japanese steels.

[Brucey]

Just to confuse the issue ;this label 555R this time not 555T, but described as Manganese...' Supplied by TI Reynolds Birmingham England' and made in England by the description on the label.

http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vinta ... -pics.html

Strange they mention Reynolds on one label ( and not the other ; Cro- Mo tube sets sourced elsewhere perhaps ).

If you search 555 tubing..images... it comes up variously with pics of Hi Ten 555 on an Emelle ; 555SL on a made in Japan US Raleigh Super Course , a 555 frame sticker

with' Toshiba 555 ' tubing , 555 SL on a Raleigh made in Taiwan frame etc ... etc

on it . I should think that the frame tube sets were most likely sourced wherever the frames were manufactured, to Raleigh U.S's spec's.


I knew Raleigh U.S was a different company Brucey, I got kind of interested in these Portages a while back for some reason.

Go, as they say over the pond, figure.

that's interesting; that '555R' frame also says 'made in England for sale in the USA' on it. I would imagine that it could perhaps have come out of the lightweight unit. And (for their own BS marketing purposes) Raleigh USA were rebranding 531DB as 555R... If so that underlines the fact that if the tubes on the touring bikes were Reynolds tubes or if those frames were made in England, it would say so .

cheers

[Brucey]

The idea that theses tube might be rebranded Reynolds ones is just ludicrous; they've probably infringed Reynold's copyright (they only did this sticker for a while, I would imagine that some lawyers had a quiet word) and are intentionally hiding the true origins of both the frame and the tubing used to make it.

Would you trust this sticker?

sorry Gaz, I can't quite read what that sticker says on it...?

cheers

[gaz]

Should have gone to Specsavers .

"Guaranteed Built With Reynolds 531 Gas Pipe Tubing Throughout"

[colin54]

That's funny Gaz.

I believe that might be marketed as 555BS in the U.S.

[jimlews]

Should have gone to Specsavers .

"Guaranteed Built With Reynolds 531 Gas Pipe Tubing Throughout"

At this point I feel compelled to put in a word or three in defence of 'gaspipe' tubing. I have two such:
A Harry Hall close clearance machine
A Viscount Tony Doyle 'boy's racer'
Neither has the cushy 531db feel but, both ride very well (especially shod with passaelas).
Both have been with me on and off since the late '70s /early eighties, the HH being my first real bike.
I still ride both though not at the same time.